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T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak
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vavwfan1
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

Well, the weather finally broke from weeks of 100/100 (100* F and 100% humidity); so I've finally pulled my T4 from a 74 transporter, to check for an oil leak from the flywheel area.

First thing I noticed was some slight scoring on the inner face of the flywheel where the seal impinges on it. (see photo). I didn't measure, but it's very minor; perhaps .002". It does "catch" a fingernail, so I'm curious if this can be worked-out with filing/emery cloth, or other known fixes? Advice greatly appreciated...... I assume this was the cause of the leak???

Second photo shows gouges from PO on the seal land. I assume, Permatex or similar compound (red RTV) should seal this? Again, any known fixes would be greatly appreciated..

The third thing I noticed were loose shims, I assume for crank end play??

I haven't touched the innerds of a VW engine since the 1970's, and I was fairly inebriated in those days and don't even remember them. I didn't read-up about them on Bentleys yet, but will, but if you have any pointers to pass on when I put it together, I sure would appreciate it.

As always Thank-you in advance for your assistance


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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

That's a rather ugly groove, if you can sand and polish it out so it's smooth and mirror shiny and set the seal deeper into the case it'll very likely stay dry. Post a pic after it's shiny for opinions on if you need a new flywheel. The gouges in the case can be handled with sealant when pressing in the seal, nothing looks beyond limits there.
Better read up on flywheel shims and setting end play in your Bentley, that's critical stuff that's explained well there.
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vavwfan1
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

Thanks Daddy. Bentlys is out in the garage and it's raining kittys and puppies out there; so tomorrow is another day.

Thanks for the advice (again)
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

One thing I have found from the seal manufacturers catalogs and handbooks....most lip type oil seals have a fairly wide range of shaft diameter that they will seal on....from small to large....meaning a wide tolerance.

As Busdaddy noted...if you can get that out clean....even if you have to have it fully polished down....you should still be within the seal tolerance. Its why they have the hose spring inside.

If that flywheel is in really good shape elsewhere...I would take it down to a machine shop and see if they can spin it in a lathe and polish all the way down to smooth.

That can happen when its been run with a leaking main seal for a while and slowly collects grit from the clutch. It turns it into an abrasive wheel. Ray
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vavwfan1
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

Thanks Ray. That's a good explanation how it happens. The flywheel is in really good condition otherwise. Though I will price one out for S&Gs.

Thanks again
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

IMO so long as the sealing surface isn't tearing up the seal, it will likely seal fine if you just polish it up with emery cloth. Use a Sabo seal as they have a nice heavy spring to press the lips of the seal against the flywheel sealing surface.

Just use a tiny dap of some kind of goo on the two gouges and at the case parting line. I just use old fashion Permatex.

Unless the shims are torn up you can normally just go back together with what it there already and if they are torn up then just get an identical thickness shim pack and use it. If measurements show that you do have excess endplay you have to determine if it is from having not enough shim thickness or from the thrust bearing moving in the case. You CAN NOT make up for the bearing moving in the case by adding more shim, you will just end up locking the bearing to the crankshaft if you attempt to do so, killing the engine.
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vavwfan1
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

Thanks Wild. I have issues in the front end too. I currently have the flywheel "OFF." When I went to pull the fan off, there was a lot of end-play, but I assume that's normal without the front-end of the engine (flywheel end) bolted together?

I'll check for sure using Bentlys procedure when I put it back together, but thought it was weird having about a 1/16" -to- 1/8" endplay with everything off.

Is that your observation too??
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

you be careful moving the crank with the flywheel off so you don't damage the brass gear
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vavwfan1
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

Entered in error

Last edited by vavwfan1 on Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: T4 Flywheel seal-scoring/Leak Reply with quote

vavwfan1 wrote:
Thanks Wild. I have issues in the front end too. I currently have the flywheel "OFF." When I went to pull the fan off, there was a lot of end-play, but I assume that's normal without the front-end of the engine (flywheel end) bolted together?

I'll check for sure using Bentlys procedure when I put it back together, but thought it was weird having about a 1/16" -to- 1/8" endplay with everything off.

Is that your observation too??


It is normal to have lots of crank movement with the flywheel removed as the flywheel and shims pack make up part of the thrust bearing mechanism. The Bentley will not tell you anything about how to adjust the endplay if the bearing is moving in the saddle, but you can find it here on The Samba if you search. Probably 95% of the time people just go back together with a shim pack which is the same thickness as what was already in there.
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