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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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 Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: need help with carb issue ****** FIXED********* |
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ok 1969 beetle not sure year of motor but single port.
car ran before breaking it down and doing a top end rebuild.
New Heads, pistons, jugs, plugs, professional rebuilt 009,
had an EMPI carb on the car when i got it. EMPI BRAND - 30-PICT-1 CARBURETOR
issue-
car runs and idles on the choke. as soon as it comes off the choke it will die. I can keep it running by messing with the throttle but it will miss, spit and spat, sneeze back fire through the carb.
things i have done
checked for vacuum leakes/ cant find any using brake/carb cleaner around the entire engine.
adjusted the choke and it works like it should. electronic choke
pulled both jets and checked they are clear.
cant really adjust air mixture screw since the car won't idle off choke.
confirmed the carb pump is squirting fuel.
set timing at 6 deg BTDC
valves adjusted
points new and set
new plug wires
not sure what else to do. First start up was today with rebuild
thanks
Last edited by BayStYat on Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VW_Jimbo 
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9946
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:21 am Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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Pictures?
New gaskets at the intake manifold, all 3 ends?
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7020
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:39 am Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| BayStYat wrote: |
| car runs and idles on the choke. as soon as it comes off the choke it will die. I can keep it running by messing with the throttle but it will miss, spit and spat, sneeze back fire through the carb. |
Classic behaviour when the idle circuit mixture is too lean. If your carburetor has an electromagnetic shutoff pilot jet, the first check is to see that the shutoff solenoid is working -- you should be able to hear and feel it click every time you turn the ignition on and off. The next item since you said the jets are already clear would be to remove the idle/pilot jet and spray a good shot of carburetor cleaner into the idle circuit passages to make sure they are clear. If those items don't do the trick, then you have a vacuum leak.
Using a base setting of the volume control screw at roughly two turns out which should be good enough to get an idle provided there are no leaks or blockages.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:48 am Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Pictures?
New gaskets at the intake manifold, all 3 ends? |
yes sir.
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:51 am Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| mukluk wrote: |
| BayStYat wrote: |
| car runs and idles on the choke. as soon as it comes off the choke it will die. I can keep it running by messing with the throttle but it will miss, spit and spat, sneeze back fire through the carb. |
Classic behaviour when the idle circuit mixture is too lean. If your carburetor has an electromagnetic shutoff pilot jet, the first check is to see that the shutoff solenoid is working -- you should be able to hear and feel it click every time you turn the ignition on and off. The next item since you said the jets are already clear would be to remove the idle/pilot jet and spray a good shot of carburetor cleaner into the idle circuit passages to make sure they are clear. If those items don't do the trick, then you have a vacuum leak.
Using a base setting of the volume control screw at roughly two turns out which should be good enough to get an idle provided there are no leaks or blockages. |
thank you Muk, I dont have that elec. shut off |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9946
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:57 am Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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I might be wrong, but I have to ask. Are you using the adjustable screw at the top of the throttle arm for idle adjustment? Looks like it, but I may be seeing thing wrong.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9946
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:59 am Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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Also, the fuel lines need to be installed all the way onto the nipples. If they are hard to push on, you can shoot a tiny shot of WD40 into the opening of the hose and then slip it all the way on.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| I might be wrong, but I have to ask. Are you using the adjustable screw at the top of the throttle arm for idle adjustment? Looks like it, but I may be seeing thing wrong. |
yes that screrw is adjustable. I thought that was adjustment for the choke? I adjusted it the way i read it in multiple articles
should i pull the top of the carb off and inspect? |
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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update****
I adjusted the idle screw in far enough to get it to idle. off choke
i can run the engine up to high rpm if i do it slow. if i rap the throttle it will sneeze and almost die.
Now i was hearing valve clatter and pulled my passenger valve caver an found the valves are out of adjustment. I adjusted them on the bench the first time. they are loose, not sure how this happened. obviously my mistake. I am going to check them and post results |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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First of all, why the hell are you adjusting your timing at idle? You set it at max advance between 28 and 32 degrees. I suspect part of you issue is retarded timing. And pulling jets and blowing them out is not enough. Pull the carb, spray through ALL passages that you can and also hit with compressed air.
Totally agree that your big issue is related to a restricted idle circuit so there have been advice given on that front.
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7020
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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May have spotted an issue here. In the picture below, it appears you may have your #3 and #4 spark leads reversed at the cap.
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vamram
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7299
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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I hate to be capt. obvious and surprised no one has yet mentioned this. The filter in your fuel line appears to be laying up against the heat riser. That location is going to make quick work of your nice clean engine compartment if your ever get the car running at operating temps w/the plastic against that pipe!! 
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
First of all, why the hell are you adjusting your timing at idle? You set it at max advance between 28 and 32 degrees. I suspect part of you issue is retarded timing. And pulling jets and blowing them out is not enough. Pull the carb, spray through ALL passages that you can and also hit with compressed air.
Totally agree that your big issue is related to a restricted idle circuit so there have been advice given on that front. |
ok, i will set total timing. I dont have a idle circuit on this carb. at least I dont thing i do. |
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| vamram wrote: |
I hate to be capt. obvious and surprised no one has yet mentioned this. The filter in your fuel line appears to be laying up against the heat riser. That location is going to make quick work of your nice clean engine compartment if your ever get the car running at operating temps w/the plastic against that pipe!! |
thank you. I am fixing that now |
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| mukluk wrote: |
May have spotted an issue here. In the picture below, it appears you may have your #3 and #4 spark leads reversed at the cap.
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checking that now |
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| fixed fuel filter, firing order was correct. |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26306
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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I'm one of the biggest fans of the 30PICT-1 carburetor you might find. It's such a simple basic carburetor, as long as your carb base gasket and the intake manifold to cylinder head gaskets are sealed, and the jets are clear, it should run fine. (now the EMPI 30PICT-1s had a vacuum advance issue when they came out, I talked about this a very long time ago here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=278191 )
I mention the manifold-to-head seals for a reason. Many times over the years people forget to pry out the old gaskets from the recess of the intake port, and stack another seal on top of it. The combination DOES NOT WORK to seal the manifold. I had it happen to me the first time I had the engine apart in my 62 40HP Bug. Also, those gaskets are "crush" seals and are only good for one use. Only One Crush Allowed.
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| ok, i have the total timing at 32Degrees. the engine is running awesome at idle and at high rpms. the issue now is its sneezes if you push hard on the throttle. if its slow ramp up it runs perfect. |
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mukluk
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Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7020
Location: Clyde, TX
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BayStYat
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 136
Location: Gulf Coast MS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: need help with carb issue. |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
I'm one of the biggest fans of the 30PICT-1 carburetor you might find. It's such a simple basic carburetor, as long as your carb base gasket and the intake manifold to cylinder head gaskets are sealed, and the jets are clear, it should run fine. (now the EMPI 30PICT-1s had a vacuum advance issue when they came out, I talked about this a very long time ago here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=278191 )
I mention the manifold-to-head seals for a reason. Many times over the years people forget to pry out the old gaskets from the recess of the intake port, and stack another seal on top of it. The combination DOES NOT WORK to seal the manifold. I had it happen to me the first time I had the engine apart in my 62 40HP Bug. Also, those gaskets are "crush" seals and are only good for one use. Only One Crush Allowed. |
thanks Andy, My heads were rebuilt so i know the intake o rings are new and the intake gasket is also. |
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