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what do I set my timing to.... ?
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malcolm2
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:48 pm    Post subject: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

So VW sets up this table based on engine code, year, fuel induction, and tranz.

So my engine is a 1.8 from a 914. Engine code EC. It came with FI.

Now it has dual carbs and is a 2.0 liter. I am just guessing, but I should set the timing to 5* ATDC with the vacuum hoses on.

Correct?

So what is the deal with the 73 - 74 dual carbs set at 10*?



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Last edited by malcolm2 on Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing too.... ? Reply with quote

What distributor do you have?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing too.... ? Reply with quote

malcolm2 wrote:
Now it has dual carbs and is a 2.0 liter. I am just guessing, but I should set the timing to 5* ATDC with the vacuum hoses on.

Correct?

Not correct.

What distributor?

There's a good chance your stock distributor will not get the correct vacuum signal from the carbs.

As a default, i'd set it to 30* BTDC @ 3500rpm with the vacuum hose disconnected and plugged. Then reconnect the hose.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing too.... ? Reply with quote

we already know it is a 914 engine in a bay so it isn't original. You probably don't know the compression ratio, and unless you have measured the bore and stroke it may not even be a 1800 anymore. Normally we tell folks to pull the vacuum hoses off, run it up to about 3500 RPM and check the timing. ABout 30 degrees BTDC at that RPM. Then reconnect the hoses and see where it is. Be sure that the vacuum advance works, that means put a spare hose on it and suck. See if it holds vacuum and if it moves the timing. Also if it has a wick under the distributor rotor, put a few drops of oil on it, like maybe 5 - 7 this time and maybe 2 or 3 every time you service it in the future.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing too.... ? Reply with quote

The original spec for your engine would have been 27° BTDC @3800rpm, with the hoses off and plugged. Since it has been "built" it might have higher compression ratio and need either premium fuel or a bit less advance to avoid knocking.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing too.... ? Reply with quote

Is the Before/After designation in the Book wrong?

AFTER Top Dead Center is to the LEFT of the TDC mark?

BEFORE Top Dead Center is to the RIGHT of the TDC Mark?

Edit. Per Amskeptic Photo 'tis is


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From Ratwell

"With a 009 distributor the correct setting is 28-32 degrees total advance at 3000+rpm. That usually comes to about 7.5 degrees BTDC (which the BugMe video mentions) at idle -- but not always. Since the 009 distributors vary in build quality and the total advance is more important than the idle setting -- the idle setting could be anywhere from about 5 to 10 degrees BTDC after setting the total advance. Once you know what THAT idle setting is for THAT 009, you can set it static in future if you wish.

If you can identify the TDC mark on the pulley, 30 degrees is 46.5mm to the right of that around the rim, so 28-32 is 3mm either side of that. If you aren't sure about the marks, describe them to me and I might be able to help. VW used at least four different sets of pulley marks over the years.

Use as much of the 28-32 degrees BTDC as you can without the engine detonating/pinging, as this helps reduce any acceleration stumbles a little (caused by the 009 distributor -- you will find that discussed on our Web site. See our article on Timing the 009 Distributor)."

http://www.vw-resource.com/timing_discussion.html
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing too.... ? Reply with quote

scubasteve321 wrote:
Is the Before/After designation in the Book not wrong?

Depends on if you are dealing with a type 1 or type 4, one has marks on the pulley, the other on a stationary scale.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

I have a brand new distributor with a petronix 3 module.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

malcolm2 wrote:
I have a brand new distributor

Aaaaaannd........... what are the numbers on the side of it????
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

Tuff to see any numbers on the side.... But below is the link and this is the TITLE: "Pertronix 3 SVDA" Distributor with built-in Rev Limiter, 12 VOLT (with Flamethrower III points replacement device installed), D7182504

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Pertronix-III-SVDA-Distributor-D7182504-p/d7182504.htm[/url]
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

Aftermarket mechanical/vacuum.. generic and might not be optimal.

Fits everything from 1968 Beetle to Vanagon. One size fits all doesn't exist unless it's digital.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

As I mentioned, it WAS a oem 1.8. Now it is a 2.0. So it has
94mm bus pistons dished 10cc
71mm crank
new Camper Special Heads with 66.2cc combustion chamber.
0.069 deck height

7.3 Compression Ratio
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

Wow, after putting that much into the engine the distributor is not the place to save a few bucks, or sacrifice quality and accuracy for Chinewsium.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

if you do not have the dual-canister distributor with both vacuum spigots,
the 5 degrees After TDC spec will have your timing hopelessly retarded.
If it is a 2.0L, then the eight degrees or so BEFORE TDC will be the spec
you want, along with the single can vacuum canister as well.
The Before TDC numbers are all to the left of the zero on the scale,
the after TDC are to the right, as the engine rotates clockwise as viewed
from the engine access door.
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malcolm2
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Wow, after putting that much into the engine the distributor is not the place to save a few bucks, or sacrifice quality and accuracy for Chinewsium.


Maybe so. I have had it a while. IIRC it was about $180. Recent distaste for China, in general, has given me 2nd thoughts..... I figured I was in trouble when Aircooled.net gave me a page of recommendations on how to clean and polish the inside of the brand new disty.

What is your recommendation?

To add more to the engine specs.

type 4 store 9590 cam kit. Adjustable pushrods, swivel foot adjusters, etc.....
Going with dual carbs.

Currently have a borrowed set of Weber 40s mounted for break-in.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing too.... ? Reply with quote

scubasteve321 wrote:

If you can identify the TDC mark on the pulley, 30 degrees is 46.5mm to the right of that around the rim, so 28-32 is 3mm either side of that. If you aren't sure about the marks, describe them to me and I might be able to help. VW used at least four different sets of pulley marks over the years.

Use as much of the 28-32 degrees BTDC as you can without the engine detonating/pinging, as this helps reduce any acceleration stumbles a little (caused by the 009 distributor -- you will find that discussed on our Web site. See our article on Timing the 009 Distributor)."

http://www.vw-resource.com/timing_discussion.html


I have several pulleys so I am not sure where this one came from. It had all it's fins so I am using it. It had these marks.... RED is #1 TDC. Yellow is 42.5mm (measured in a straight line) to the right BTDC.


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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

That's odd because the #1 mark on a "real" 034 (SVDA) is 180*. so it looks like you're on TDC on #3, not #1.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

malcolm2 wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
Wow, after putting that much into the engine the distributor is not the place to save a few bucks, or sacrifice quality and accuracy for Chinewsium.


Maybe so. I have had it a while. IIRC it was about $180. Recent distaste for China, in general, has given me 2nd thoughts..... I figured I was in trouble when Aircooled.net gave me a page of recommendations on how to clean and polish the inside of the brand new disty.

What is your recommendation?

To add more to the engine specs.

type 4 store 9590 cam kit. Adjustable pushrods, swivel foot adjusters, etc.....
Going with dual carbs.

Currently have a borrowed set of Weber 40s mounted for break-in.

In your case with all the mods a real German 034 is likely the best choice, if you are bent on a non points system you can put a replacement module in it, at least you know for sure it advances properly and has long lasting internals: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2345269
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

Why anyone would buy a POS distributor when you’ve got three great people here who sell the real thing at good pricing escapes me.

Posting up your $20 FookYou Brand distributor then asking “ what’s wrong with my car.” should be an instant 30 day ban

Can I have another cup of coffee sweetheart? I’m irritable.
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malcolm2
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: what do I set my timing to.... ? Reply with quote

I believe you are correct on the direction..... this picture in the Bentley screwed me up. It is actually 2 pictures. The bottom one has the parting line of the case running north and south. THe top one has the parting line running east and west. But that is not completely obvious. THen they tell you to insert the disty drive shaft with a 12* angle to the parting line. So I assumed both parting lines ran N-S.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So I pulled the disty and the shaft looked just like the picture..... Then I got Tom Wilson's book out and found the error of my ways. Much better description....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


shot down the hole....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Now my button and vacuum can better match Tom's sketch.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by malcolm2 on Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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