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1200 cylinders
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popie65
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

MORE GREAT INFO EVERYONE, Many thanks!
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Chickensoup
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

yeah. you got several options for using a 69mm crank.

A. find a 64-66 bus 1500 crank. direct bolt on. may need to shim the barrels a tad but vw didnt. they just added a copper spacer on the head side. you will be using stock 40hp rods with this set up.

pros- drop into place. no extra work needed. not even clearancing.

cons- hard to find and are rare.

B. use a later 1300 crank. will fit your stock flywheel i believe, but rods are not exactly interchangeable. easiest route is to have a machine shop narrow the big end on the 40hp rods.

pros-
very easy to find.
gives you the chance to buy a dpr or new CW chromoly crank.
later cranks are also much stronger.
allows for a STD journal
allows you to use an 8 dowel lightened flywheel

cons-
must have rods narrowed. but your gonna have to have the rods rebuilt anyhow so it doesn't really matter.

dont forget to have your rotating assembly balanced while your at it.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

Yes 40 horse heads work on the 40 horse big bore kit engines. Also you could go with dual port heads here "Dan Ruddock" is dong it with 88's. "Machining Required" Not sure if a 69mm crankshaft will work in one? People do it though, Mystery engine potential rebuild project. I have a aftermarket vw DO case that's built to run 69mm and 1600 jugs. But What's the difference then, it's just a 1600!
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Chickensoup
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

stroke that son of a bitch! vw did it. why cant you?
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popie65
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

Thank you Rome!

Sorry but I have one more Q. If I go with the 1200 big bore cylinders, will the stock 1200 heads fit directly or do I need 1300/1500 heads?

Thanks
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Rome
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

Quote:
Im not too familiar with interchangeability of cylinders, I was wondering if say 1500 cylinders will fit the 1200 case?
1500 or 1600 cylinders are not a direct slip-in fit for your era 40 hp engine. Both of those have the same outer diameter at the case end. You need to bore the cylinder openings in the case slightly to allow those cylinders to fit in. They will fit over the 1200's cylinder head case studs. I have a trashed early 40 hp engine in the basement (chunk missing from a main bearing saddle Sad ) which would be similar to your spare '61 1200. I just went down to try sliding a 1600 cylinder to it.

As others have mentioned, you can buy piston/cylinder sets specifically made for a 40 hp 1200 cc engine which are known as "big bore 40 hp" sets. Those cylinders are thinner at the base than the 1500 cc 83 mm cylinders so that the BB40's do slip into the 1200's case with no modifications. You end up with 1385 cc. That set is also a better match than a set of 1500/1600 cylinders because:
1. Overall length of the BB40 cylinders are slightly shorter than the 1500/1600's.
2. Pistons in the BB40 set have the smaller wrist pin diameter 20 mm to match up with the 40 hp connecting rods; compared to the 22 mm of the 1500/1600 pistons which are designed for the 69 mm crankshaft's connecting rods.
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popie65
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the wealth of great info!!
There is hope with a tight budget!!

My existing 1200 engine in the car now is tired but with a tune-up, 009 dist and a 30mm carb it pulls pretty good in 3rd and 4th.
I have 205/65/15 on the rear now, so I should go with 70 series tires for that little more top end.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

If you want a simple engine with decent power, I will put:

-Big bore kit
-1300 single port heads (or 1300 dual port if you cand find them, here in Europe are fairly common)
-Hi flow intake manifold and side castings (sp or dp)
- A good carb, as a 34 pict 3
-1300-1600 1.1-1 rocker assembly (or 1.25s-1.4s)
-A decent exhaust system

With that combination you should have more power than a stock 1600, because the big bore kit bumps up the CR to 8.5-9:1

If you put 195/70 r15 tires, you will have about the same gearing as a 4.12 gearbox with stock 165/80 tires. Yo can have a higher gearing if you put taller tires, a 205/70, for example
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RWK
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

Not sure what trans you have, but likely a 4.37 R&P, maybe try a 4.12 gear trans to lower your rpm, used 4.12 trans be cheaper then freeway flyer. You will loose your accel and low end power however. 4.37 and 40 hp is all done at around 65-70 mph
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

https://www.anchorbronze.com/single-post/2018/02/13/C90500-Tin-Bronze-for-Valve-Guides
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

These AA Performance 83mm Piston and Cylinder Kits are available for the 40 horse engines and don't require the case to be further opened at the spigots VW8300T40. 1385cc.
Some head rebuilders have a knurling tool that will dress up the old guide making it good for another 50000 miles without changing the guides. Knurled guides actually help with better valve guide oiling as would running later model 1.1 rockers with the oil holes. Also you can run solid rocker shafts and Swivel Ball Feet adjusters. Scat makes good quality cheap ball adjusters. They will take the side stress of the valve stem. Make sure you set up the Valve geometry correct. The guides should be ok for the life of the head. But yes Heads are ask to do a lot of work and need to be done right to run even 50,000 miles. The big thing with heads is the Sparkplug hole that it's not stripped or cracked. They are best if inserted with a quality factory pinned insert if they have a bad or worn out hole. The wrong inserts or cracked heads and inserts just held in with some Red Threadlocker will leak compression and will come out on the spark plug first plug change. Best to have new heads really. But I know 40 horse stuff is getting hard to find.
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popie65
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:01 pm    Post subject: 1200 cylinders Reply with quote

My '65 Bug is a work in progress and is my Daily driver, I was wondering about a small HP boost would be nice out of the 1200cc engine.

Im not too familiar with interchangeability of cylinders, I was wondering if say 1500 cylinders will fit the 1200 case?

I have a spare 1961 1200cc engine that I have not run it yet is a spare but a complete engine, but needs a valve job (exhaust valve guides are very worn out) it does have ratio rockers, but I do not know exactly what they are. How much oomph does the ratio rockers help?
Due to budget restrictions, I need a little more power so I can use taller rear tires so I can run on the freeway without screaming the engine to death (I cant afford a freeway flyer trans at this time),

One last question, Im not crazy about VW's use of Silicone Bronze valve guides, my experience with these engines is the valve guides are the weakest part of the engine and the part that wears out the most. Would the 'Racing" Iron exhaust valve guides be better for durability especially changing rocker ratios?

Thanks!
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