Restauration of 71 411 wagon

[Abelclasico]

Hello all,
I thought it was about time I open this thread about the restoration of my 411. Some of you might know it as I was asking questions about it a few months ago. While I decide what to do with it eventually, I thought this would be a good chance for me to learn new skills.
I decided to concentrate first on the bodywork, beginning from the outside in. I know this might not be the correct approach, but since I know what is lurking inside....I wanted to start with the 'easier tasks' and then gradually move forward into more complex work.
Anyway, this is what I have done so far:

Right rear wing: there was some rust at the bottom that needed to be cut and replaced

As many of you pointed out, the metal is very thin on the 411. I kept blowing holes until I managed to find the right voltage on the welder.

Of course, the inside panel still needs to be addressed, but I need to move the car closer to my garage in order to use the welder.

So far, I am quite satisfied with how it has turned out. Now, I need to deal with the other side,
cheers,
Abel

[Ant B]

Nice work sir.
just how thin is the metal on these beasts?
I got a small project to start once my ghia is finished.

Ant B

[raygreenwood]

A lot of the outer shell fenders are between 0.035" to about 0.045" maximum. The metal is thin.

These were bigger cars than anything but the bus...and they still kept weight down to about 2300 bs on the wagons....maybe 100 lbs less on the two door sedans....with a bumper to bumper length of about 16 feet.

They did this by using unibody construction. Its strong because of all of the intersecting chambers and boxes created by welding parts together in a triangulated fashion.....but with thinner metal.

Nice welding work!

Ray

[Abelclasico]

Even at the lowest setting on my welder, I had to be really careful and only pull the trigger for a milisecond to just create a small weld. It was a tedious work and with a little bit of filler, I managed to close any remaining gaps.

I understand the concept of the monocoque body and I think it is a very good idea. My Mini has that design too. However, when there is rust.....it has to be done properly, I am afraid. I learned that lesson well when replacing the sills/rockers on my car years ago.

[Lars S]

Good work!!!
Yes, the metal is relatively thin on theese cars and even thinner on the coupe than on the Variant in some places.

This is from the factory workshop manual:

/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[Abelclasico]

Thanks for providing this information about the metal thickness Lars. It will help me when dealing with some of the areas that need to be repaired,
cheers,
Abel

[Abelclasico]

I plan on dealing with the left side soon and noticed that the rear wing has some sort of rubber seal inside that trapped water and caused that area to rust.
Can anybody explain what was the purpose of that seal?
cheers,
Abel

[Ant B]

can't wait to see how you get on with this project sir.
mine will be waiting till next year before i start the restoration.
so everything you do will be a help to me.
thank you

Ant.

[Abelclasico]

[Hawker]

Hello!

There should only be the wing beading, there shouldn’t be a rubber gasket, to the best of my knowledge. The bottom flange on the rear wings actually creates an escape route for any water that gets between the outer and inner wing. The pressing forms thin slots. These often get blocked with mud and that’s when the water attacks the wing from the inside, in its bid for freedom. What I see in your photos is fairly common.

BR,

Rob

[raygreenwood]

[Abelclasico]

...Not a great achievement but ,over the summer, managed to refurbish 2 of the wheels in order roll the car during restoration.
I am actually looking for 2 more wheels with tires (that hold air) so that I can move the car to my garage for further welding. Luckily Beetle, Ghia, Type 3 use the same 4 lug rims. If anybody local (Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Durham, Raleigh) has some, please, let me know,c
cheers,
Abel

[raygreenwood]

Nice!

Ray

[Ant B]

Those wheels look nice.
I have 4 spare wheels for my 412, but i live in the Uk so can't help you.
sorry.


Ant

[Abelclasico]

Quick question: while digging the left rear side, I noticed that there seems to be some metal missing (rusted out) and also found 2 grommets. Will these grommets go with the missing piece of metal? What's the purpose of these grommets?
thanks,
Abel

[raygreenwood]

The missing piece of metal......that box shaped construct that is rusting away is a "bulkhead". Its purpose is to mostly as a water separator. Its to keep water and dirt/grime from the intake louvers from flowing directly into the intake duct.

The rubber grommets are not grommets.....they are drains. There are several on the bottom of most cars that are similar. They allow water to slowly drip out.

The problem is that they can get hard with age and either shrink up and no longer function...or...slowly dirt builds up in that box area and even a functioning drain gets stopped up.

There are smaller but similar ones on your chassis tunnel. You could clean up all of that rust....trim the metal straight....pop-rivet on replacement metal and snap in a couple of rubber drain plugs like that and put seam sealer on it. Under the fender no one would see it.
Ray

[Abelclasico]

Thanks Ray, that makes sense. After reading your post, I look at the other side and, silly me for not doing this before, cold clearly see where the plugs used to be. The right side seems in 'better' shape than the left one. Or at least it is not missing more metal, although it seems to have been hit at some point.
I will try to replicate the same pattern on the left side,
cheers,
Abel

PS: the right side looks bad but that is partly because of the rust converter's reaction to the metal.

[Abelclasico]

...and the inside of the left rear fender is now fixed. I decided to weld a piece of metal rather than using rivets. That gives me a chance to keep practicing my welding. The drain holes could have been bigger, but they will do for now,
cheers,
Abel

[Abelclasico]

Once the inside of the rear wing was sorted, I decided to tackle the wing itself by replacing all the rot that had accumulated inside.
I ended up welding 5 different pieces . I know, it is not very professional, but I think it is a bit better than before. I still need to deal with some imperfections around the wheel arch, though. Now, I can continue with the rest of the left side (rocker panels, wheel arches, front wing which I got a replacement for...)
cheers,
Abel

[raygreenwood]

Damn! Very nice work!

Ray