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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Time to clear cam for stroke. Dan |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Time to clear cam for stroke. Dan |
From all my mock up so far the cam seems to clear and need no material removed but I will double check that. Thanks _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Time to clear cam for stroke. Dan |
From all my mock up so far the cam seems to clear and need no material removed but I will double check that. Thanks |
I find that hard to believe unless your running oem Porsche rods. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
evanfrucht wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Time to clear cam for stroke. Dan |
From all my mock up so far the cam seems to clear and need no material removed but I will double check that. Thanks |
I find that hard to believe unless your running oem Porsche rods. |
They are CB's H-beam "Super Race" Rods with the 5/16" ARP bolts. I have read some conflicting info on the need to clearance for this combo with the 82mm VW journal crank, but find many are saying they did NOT need to. Only with the I-beams or the Scat rods that have giant 3/8 bolts. I'm going to check carefully. I know it wasn't hitting anywhere but I need to verify I have ~0.04 rod to cam clearance. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4423 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
...I went to a local aviation surplus hardware store and picked up an assortment of allen head brass NPT pipe plugs: a few 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8." I found a set of used USA made NPT taps for about $20 on ebay. I have a tapered reaming tool but it turned out to be unnecassary and difficult to use for this application. I ended up enlarging the holes with the proper size drill bits for each tap...
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Evan do you remember what size bit, tap and plug you used for the full flow oil mod?
Thank you. _________________ 1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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allamaabroad Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2016 Posts: 560 Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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[quote="Buggeee"]
evanfrucht wrote: |
...I went to a local aviation surplus hardware store and picked up an assortment of allen head brass NPT pipe plugs: a few 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8." I found a set of used USA made NPT taps for about $20 on ebay. I have a tapered reaming tool but it turned out to be unnecassary and difficult to use for this application. I ended up enlarging the holes with the proper size drill bits for each tap...
Evan do you remember what size bit, tap and plug you used for the full flow oil mod?
Thank you. |
Should be 1/4" NPT, with the appropriate drill size (use a tap chart) _________________ Dennis - 1973 Super Beetle ('16-'21)
Debbie- 1970 Baywindow Bus ('21 - Present)
Tin top camper/adventure bus
2180 TW: CNC Panchitos, Beehives Done Right, Web 163, Ultralight Lifters, 1.3 Rockers, CSP Python, Custom Speeduino EFI Conversion with 40mm Throttle Bodies
Distributors are lame
I have a really hard time leaving things alone...
Innovative and affordable engine management systems and EFI conversions for your Vintage VW
Visit https://debbiesaircooled.com/
Last edited by allamaabroad on Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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That's correct, it is 1/4" NPT. Also for that one use a box end wrench or EVEN BETTER a socket that fits tight with exention on rachet, and be careful to keep it straight and centered, inline with the hole. I didn't have enough room in that location to use the standard "T" handle that is normally employed to keep the tap from wobbling around. You could also put a T handle on an extension, might be the best. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Time to clear cam for stroke. Dan |
From all my mock up so far the cam seems to clear and need no material removed but I will double check that. Thanks |
Ok so I double checked the cam clearance. I used some elastic hair bands wrapped around head studs and threaded through pin bushing to keep the rods centered on the bottom half of the case and kept the top two rods centered by hand. With a little "shimmy-shimmy" back and forth I was easy able to see where it came the closest to touching (needing clearance.) In this case the rods did not touch, but I only had around 0.02 clearance and thought "better safe than sorry"
This is how it was as it came, with roughly 0.02" clearance between rod cap corner and cam "shaft"
Marking location of closest point with colored pencil
Tools used to clearance cam. I reccomend everyone buy one of these air belt files sanders... too many uses!
ViDEO of process. CAM IS CLEARANCED IN 8 LOCATIONS.
First 4 spots where material is removed
Link
Second 4 spots which are exactly 180 degrees opposite each of the last spots
Link
After clearancing I have enough room for comfort... well over 0.04"
After doing this I polished each spot I sanded on the bench grinder
Final pics coming soon _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )
Last edited by evanfrucht on Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:16 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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You need min of .040 |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3295 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Just knock the corners of the rods off with a belt sander and don't mess with the cam. A quick 45 on all of them the same. They will stay close in balance and get you .040 in a couple passes.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Brian_e wrote: |
Just knock the corners of the rods off with a belt sander and don't mess with the cam. A quick 45 on all of them the same. They will stay close in balance and get you .040 in a couple passes.
Brian |
OOPS, too late! Both would have worked but the cam was cheaper than these pre-balanced H beams from CB, LOL! I did technically use a belt sander either way Thanks for the input
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
You need min of .040 |
I've heard people get away with ~0.02 but I agree... why take the chance? It's too easy to clearance the cam
I added video of the process BTW _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1127 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Evan good morning which lifter will you use with your EP12 cam. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Bad bug wrote: |
Evan good morning which lifter will you use with your EP12 cam. |
The CB 28mm ultralight lifters (mfg. pn# 1537) _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Grego in Sac Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2019 Posts: 154 Location: Sac, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Evan if you haven’t done the straightening of the heads cooling fins, I find that a thin cutoff disc in my drill worked great. I tried a Dremmel with a diamond bit but the shank of the bit couldn’t get all the way down to clean up the area needed most which is by the combustion chamber. Still need to clean them up and smooth them out with some sandpaper but you get the idea
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7395
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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A hacksaw always worked well for me for the cooling fin clean up. |
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Grego in Sac Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2019 Posts: 154 Location: Sac, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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74 Thing wrote: |
A hacksaw always worked well for me for the cooling fin clean up. |
But power tools are funnier! (Insert Tim the Tool man grunt) |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Has your case got an oil return at the flywheel seal like cam shafts do , some cases don't have them, I always put 1 in with a dremel . They stop oil pooling at the bottom of the inner flywheel seal. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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GARRICK.CLARK wrote: |
Has your case got an oil return at the flywheel seal like cam shafts do , some cases don't have them, I always put 1 in with a dremel . They stop oil pooling at the bottom of the inner flywheel seal. |
Ya, that's actually one of the first case mods I did, it's on page one. I also slightly beveled the leading edge (I think that's what you would call it, lol) of that main seal oil galley passage to help keep the seal well oiled so that it lasts longer. It's all "in theory" but they are minor mods that I feel can only help.
The last engine always dripped a bit of oil. I not even sure it it was from the flywheel seal or just a combination of small leaks. Leaks always annoy me, even small harmless ones. On this build I'm trying to prevent any. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Checked the endplay with two shims so that I could figure out the thickness I need for the third and last one. Using 3 is important because they are oiled and spin so having three allows the unit to act as a bearing. I checked before without any shims to figure out my starting point, in my case I needed the three thinnest ones in the pack from CB. ALSO, check the shims they are not accurately labeled.
Those 2 shims left me with 0.014" clearance or 0.356mm. I am shooting for 0.075mm(0.003") final end play so I need a 0.28 mm shim for that. Luckily my CB kit came with double 0.285mm shims (one was unlabeled and one was marked 32 but, oh well, works for me... measure those shims yourself with a good mic) so I am good to go!
_________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Evan’s Garage Built Rod: The Birth of a 2180cc Street Machine |
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Here my solution to oil starvation on a street car that wants as much ground clearance as it can get (the roads are rough in LA and I drive all over.) I call it the "skinny sump" ... it's a sort of sump plate extension. The pickup tube will be highly modified, extended about 1 inch, with a new type of screen system involved using two sizes of easily available sink strainers.
Marking it out
All cutting was done with a jig saw for this. I did final shaping and cleaned up the lines with a coarse burr on grinder.
Used some dabs of oil paint to mark out the mounting holes. You can also use a gasket or get creative. Don't drill the holes to big to begin with also... That way you have a little room to correct any small errors with a rat tail file or burr.
Not my best punch job, lol
After drilling the holes and some filing for a precise fit
Now onto the pickup tube... Doing all this would be pointless without improving, extending and modifying the oil pickup too. It's not easy to remove, so use some a good amount of heat on the case area around the tube to help expand things a bit then it will tap and shimmy out somewhat easily. I did not realize this at first and bent/dented mine all up and then had to straighten it back out.
Flaring a thin steel tube (22ish gauge) the old fashioned way
Then chop off the end about 1 inch and cut 4 slits into the non-flared end. Then bend inwards and slide onto a pipe that is identical in dimension to the original german pickup tube, I used 5/8" conduit ( pretty sure that's what it was) which worked perfectly
Then I tack welded a thin washer onto the end of the flare. This got blended into the inside with a carbide burr
Made a custom steel "sleeve" out of some thicker pipe and welded it on. My initial plan was to braze this onto the oil pickup, but for some reason it would not take the braze well at all, maybe I just couldn't get the whole pickup assembly hot enough with the mapp gas, to big maybe... so I ended up just welding it on. The slip/press fit made it easy to weld on straight and at the proper depth atleast. I ground away all of the old 5/8 conduit and smoothed things out with a carbide burr.
Brazing to seal it up. I don't want to be sucking air.
Testing fit and also some quick before/after
Here's the general idea
Now here I decided to make a sort of anti slosh baffle to incorporate into the pickup assembly. The idea is to help keep oil in that lowered center sump area during any occasional quick acceleration, cornering, and to combat windage to some extent and possibly even help funnel oil where it needs to be. It's a street car but I want to have a little fun every once in a while and "see how she pulls"
The notches and cut-outs are for camshaft lobe and sump clearance (note raised support ribs on floor of sump area, almost look like speed bumps)
Installing 6 grade 10.9, 35mm long M6x1 hex head bolts. I used both strong loctite and 518 anaerobic sealer to prevent any unlikely oil seepage through threads.
It's pretty slim, only sacrificing about 1cm of ground clearance when compared to stock.
Then I surfaced the original german sump. It was a little rough from being over tightened I knocked down the dimples around the holes flat as best I could with body hammers/picks and then did this... using the skinny sump (after it was sanded flat on glass) and a worn out grinding wheel to keep things centered. Bare with me, this is little creative and improper. However, it does work great. VIDEO included.
Link
Here is the whole lot and how it goes together. I found a flat ring shaped Neodymium magnet on ebay that fits the original drain plate perfectly. I decided to try out the WW silicone gaskets also. Make sure your washers are real copper (not magnetic) since steal doesn't crush/seal like copper when tightened and you end up with leaks. There are tricksters out there selling copper plated washers in kits. Wolfsburg's are good.
_________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )
Last edited by evanfrucht on Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:44 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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