Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
New tankless water heater
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Off Topic Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Your 4 to 6 foot water table is surface run off. You might want to boil that for human consumption!

My problem with power outages is that my new 3K watt generator does not have enough jam to start a 1/2 hp pump down an 85 foot deep well. Need a bigger one than that to handle the current in rush on start up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Your 4 to 6 foot water table is surface run off. You might want to boil that for human consumption!

My problem with power outages is that my new 3K watt generator does not have enough jam to start a 1/2 hp pump down an 85 foot deep well. Need a bigger one than that to handle the current in rush on start up.


Something whacky there.

1/2 HP is only 350 watts, so 3kW should handle the inrush easily. You should’ve able to find a motor with a start current of under 2kW at that rating
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrisflstf
Samba Member


Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3446
Location: San Diego
chrisflstf is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Could be your pump motor is very old, drawing too much juice

Im on my 2nd tankless water over 35 years. Cut my gas consumption 35% Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
oprn wrote:
Your 4 to 6 foot water table is surface run off. You might want to boil that for human consumption!

My problem with power outages is that my new 3K watt generator does not have enough jam to start a 1/2 hp pump down an 85 foot deep well. Need a bigger one than that to handle the current in rush on start up.


Something whacky there.

1/2 HP is only 350 watts, so 3kW should handle the inrush easily. You should’ve able to find a motor with a start current of under 2kW at that rating

X2, mine is 3/4 hp and the generator barely twitches when the well pump starts, at least consider some fresh capacitors in the starter/relay box.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VW_Jimbo Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9967
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
VW_Jimbo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Having 5 ladies home when the 15 year old water heater Pukes out its last Watery Joules, bad day.

Cutting in the installed tankless ( thanks Covid time) in 30 minutes with PEX, PRICELESS.


NICE!!! Everyone wins in that scenario!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
oprn wrote:
Your 4 to 6 foot water table is surface run off. You might want to boil that for human consumption!

My problem with power outages is that my new 3K watt generator does not have enough jam to start a 1/2 hp pump down an 85 foot deep well. Need a bigger one than that to handle the current in rush on start up.


Something whacky there.

1/2 HP is only 350 watts, so 3kW should handle the inrush easily. You should’ve able to find a motor with a start current of under 2kW at that rating

Ya that's what I thought too until it was explained to me that the inrush current on start up can easily be 10 times the running current. That puts the instantaneous load at 30 amps and a 120V 3000W generator is only going to put out 25 amps on a good day if you do the math.

So - no it kicks off the breaker on the generator and will not start this pump. The pump and controls were new a year and a half ago by the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

10x is a huge start current factor. You can do better than that.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrisflstf
Samba Member


Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3446
Location: San Diego
chrisflstf is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Startup is usually 2x running current.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cdennisg
Samba Member


Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
cdennisg is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Bug-nut wrote:
At work we commonly install Navien tankless water heaters for customers. Usually the 240A model. It has a built in recirculating pump (for a hot water recirculating loop system) and a 1 gallon buffer tank; that is used to help prevent the “cold water sandwich” as it’s known. They are made in South Korea and have a crazy good warranty. We very rarely have any issues with them. It can run on either natural gas or propane, and can also be set up to run in parallel with up to 98 other units for large commercial installations. We installed 3 together as a system for a good sized restaurant in our area. One unit is designated as the “master” unit and it controls the others. During low use, only one at a time will run, and it swaps which one is running at each cycle (to help even out the wear between the units). Under times of high demand, all 3 will fire up and run somewhere around 50% capacity (since there’s three units they never need to run at max capacity; when you spec the system for large applications you never want all units to have to run at or near max capacity to be able to keep up with demand).

However, as was already mentioned, a tankless heater isn’t perfect for every installation. If I had to guess, I’d say that roughly 70% of houses that already have gas or propane installed could benefit from a gas tankless heater. The rest would be better staying with what they currently have installed. I can’t speak for the other heaters, but the Navien requires a 3/4” gas line, and also (2) 2” schedule 40 pvc pipes that have to be run to a proper location outside, one for the exhaust and one for the intake. Also you have to run a 1/2” drain line for the combustion housing (to drain condensate). They also recommend you install a Ph neutralizer on the drain line, however very few customers actually have us do so.

Kinda off topic, but another type of water heater that most people don’t seem to know about is called a “hybrid” heater. It’s a normal 50 (or 80) gallon electric heater with a small air conditioning unit mounted on top. Under light use or during down time, the electric elements are turned off and the ac unit runs, pulling heat out of the surrounding air and putting it into the water. If installed somewhere there is sufficient airflow (like an enclosed garage or the like) it’s pretty awesome because it can cool the garage down while taking that heat that would be normally transferred outside and wasted and putting it into the water instead. My boss has one installed in his garage. He also has a wood burning stove in there that he uses to heat his house (it’s a three story). So even during the winter his water heater has plenty of external heat to put into the water. Only during periods of high usage does the elements have to turn on to help keep the water up at temperature. These heaters are a lot more energy efficient that a standard electric unit, however they do cost more up front and, (like the Navien), you have to run a drain line for the a/c unit.

Just thought I’d share this information. Hopefully it can be helpful to someone.

(P.S. Another interesting fact some of you might appreciate. Cracker Barrel restaurants use (2) 100 gallon gas fired water heaters plumbed in parallel to supply their stores. They are set at 145°F, and the inlet and outlet is 1-1/2” copper. They have a recirculating hot water loop and a thermostatic mixing valve for all the bathrooms and the hand sinks in the back (so you won’t get burned). However, as large as they seem, during rush hour if one unit is down, and they turn the dish machine on they will start running out of hot water pretty fast.

Another Cracker Barrel fact: no matter where in the U.S. you go, all Cracker Barrels have three things you’ll always find. A fireplace, over which will be mounted a deer head, and a gun of some sort (usually a shotgun of some type).

Have a good evening! Very Happy


All of this is great info. Thanks for posting!
_________________
nothing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
10x is a huge start current factor. You can do better than that.

Maybe I could on my calculator but the well and the powerplant apparently can't!
I just spent 6 weeks testing 27 water wells using three 1 hp pumps and three 5000W generators. Two out of the three testing units worked fine but the third one kept throwing the breaker and had to be babied to get the job done so my arse is not sucking slough water on this one! This is real life stuff not theory!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Randy in Maine
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
Randy in Maine is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

I heat my 1500 square foot house and my 1200 square foot garage/shop with radiant floor heat in 3 zones and get all of my domestic hot water from my little wall mounted propane fired Baxi condensing boiler ~180K BTUs. A bit less than 600 gallons of propane per year. Very efficient and cheap to run over the past 10 years. If the power goes out I can run the whole thing off a small generator or my even camping battery with inverter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nsracing
Samba Member


Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9481
Location: NOVA
nsracing is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

I like tanks for ease - just have the largest one...so 3 people can take shower and not have to run out of hot water.

I have a boiler for my baseboard heating the whole house - very nice and toasty in real dead of winter.

Cost is a big factor between the systems and maintenance. How much you want to do yourself or others to maintain your unit.

The more hi-tech, the more the layman is set aside.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Quote:
Another Cracker Barrel fact: no matter where in the U.S. you go, all Cracker Barrels have three things you’ll always find. A fireplace, over which will be mounted a deer head, and a gun of some sort (usually a shotgun of some type).


You left off “bad food”

Find a real diner run by the owners and put your money in working peoples pockets and not a franchise owner

I’ve never had trouble cranking my car at the Bendix Diner in NJ, known for its starters.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cdennisg
Samba Member


Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
cdennisg is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Quote:
Another Cracker Barrel fact: no matter where in the U.S. you go, all Cracker Barrels have three things you’ll always find. A fireplace, over which will be mounted a deer head, and a gun of some sort (usually a shotgun of some type).


You left off “bad food”

Find a real diner run by the owners and put your money in working peoples pockets and not a franchise owner

I’ve never had trouble cranking my car at the Bendix Diner in NJ, known for its starters.


He never said it was good food, nor that he ate there, just some interesting facts.

Small town diners are always a good bet. Find the one with most cars parked out front.
_________________
nothing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bug-nut
Samba Member


Joined: December 20, 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Knoxville, TN
Bug-nut is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Not to come off as a smart ass, but since you brought it up here’s how I stand. I’m not gonna complain about Cracker Barrel or their food. I do plumbing for a living and our local Cracker Barrels provide us with roughly 35% of our business, so I don’t care whether their food is good or not. However, while we are on the subject, I will say that compared to a lot of other restaurants I work in, Cracker Barrels almost always have the cleanest kitchens, and they do make almost all of their food from scratch. Can they beat a good mom and pop diner? Probably not. That said, there are also several other restaurants and diners that I used to eat at until I had a chance to go back in the kitchen, where I quickly changed my mind and have never eaten there again. Shocked

My boss and I actually changed two water heaters today, the second being one at (you guessed it!) a Cracker Barrel! The one in Harriman TN to be more specific. The old Bradford White unit had developed two leaks, the major one being inside the burner cavity. The store had a new one ordered and delivered for us, so all we had to do was change the units out. The ones they are currently using are Rheem “Triton” power-vent units, with this fancy smancy new “powered anode” system to help prevent galvanic corrosion and provide longer life to the unit. The old one was a conventional draft model, so we had to run new 3” PVC intake and exhaust pipes, along with a condensate drain. We also removed two very small and undersized expansion tanks and installed a 5 gallon floor mount model.

The first heater we did this morning was a 40 gallon conventional gas heater that made it to 22 years before it finally died. We upgraded them to a 50 gallon unit, so now they have a little bump in water capacity and were very happy to have hot water again.

It’s always a nice thing to have happy customers when you get finished. So I’d consider today a good day! Very Happy
_________________
1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1962 Austin-Healey Sprite

Snort wrote:
A 59 Beetle is just an Oval-Window car with aspirations of modernity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cdennisg
Samba Member


Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
cdennisg is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Did you have lunch while you were there?
_________________
nothing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
Did you have lunch while you were there?


And while having lunch, did you see any ghosts?

I’ve completely eliminated franchised food from my travels. You can dive off the highway and buy fresh bread, fruit, meat at a grocery store for less money and less damage to your body
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12740
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
I’ve completely eliminated franchised food from my travels. You can dive off the highway and buy fresh bread, fruit, meat at a grocery store for less money and less damage to your body

Very true but... that takes... effort! Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

Way off topic but here you go. When I stop at Cracker Barrel I get beans and corn bread with onion and chow chow. Yankee boys, canucks and surfers probably have no idea what this is. In and out About half hour and it costs six dollars. Beans are good for you😀
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bug-nut
Samba Member


Joined: December 20, 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Knoxville, TN
Bug-nut is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: New tankless water heater Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
Did you have lunch while you were there?


Yes I did - my lunch I brought with me from the house! Very Happy
_________________
1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1962 Austin-Healey Sprite

Snort wrote:
A 59 Beetle is just an Oval-Window car with aspirations of modernity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.