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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:17 am Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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some 30% of flywheels are stepped now, so hopefully people grinding flywheels should be able to deal with it if they grind all kinds of flywheels.
Would be nice if the flywheel grinder has a CBN "wheel" instead of an regular grinding wheel. CBN wheel always keeps a sharp corner, that makes it easy to get into the corner of the little counterbore without enlarging it.
Pressure plate should fit snug in the flywheel so that it s centered and the balance is not thrown off.
The step distance should be between .827 or .835 depending what book you look it up in.
Cb cheater seems like a good idea IMO
Using the full groove bearing with single drilled crank is.....a good idea, but it isn't a requirement. VW didn't seem to care which bearing went with what crank.
Single drilled VS cross drilled and full groove vs half groove is.....like what is your favorite brand of oil. Everybody has a opinion, but generally they all work.
in the past I have extended the oil reliefs inside the bearings to be closer to 90 degrees each. Did it work better? not sure....but it didn't work worse.
doing this you might think to yourself.... Is the oil going to flow up this side of the groove in opposition to the way the crank rotates? hmmm so I did not extend the "leading" side as much.
Now I think I would extend the oil troughs in the bearing, BOTh ways so to be at least 90 degrees each, and add an additional hole to the leading side of each groove.
I got the idea from LS engines, and a discussion on speedtalk, besides just common sense.
It's not that having two holes in the crank is good, rather that the cross drilled VW cranks had a HUGE oil trough ahead of each groove. With so much groove in the crank you don't need as much groove in the bearing. But actually I think that was NOT best. i have noticed measuring these cranks they almost always have excessive wear next to the oil troughs, and that's interesting because generally cranks do not wear much on the sides. it's possibly a clue to what is really going on, far as HOW the crank flexes. |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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awesome! thanks modok. you answered my questions and then some. The Chinese went with a smaller cross drill on their crank. as noted on both the AA and empi crankshafts. idk about the rest but mine have considerably smaller cross drills.
btw do i have to re coat bearings if i cut a groove in them? i will look for that thread on speed talk. i found some interesting topics over although admittedly i rarely visit the site. after all, i do have one post
oh, and i FINALLY found an un garbaged pinion gear. except for that little knick on the side. its slightly protruded above the surface. how should i knock the edge down?
thanks
edit- ok damn thats a blurry picture. apologies _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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Just knock down any burr with a little file. Brass is soft, work softly! |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:42 am Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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how about a pair of SU carbs from something like a rover v8 or a volvo? whats so special about these carbs besides looking cool and being simple? will they work just as well on a vw as they do on bikes and British cars? I saw some on a vintage speed car today and it got me thinking.
Thanks _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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Yes they should work just as good on a single port VW as they do on an MGB
BUT, it's only been done a few times, so, it's experimental.
You need a good set of carbs to get the engine running good before you do any experiments. |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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yeah that sounds like a better plan. they caught my eye is all. i think if i were to try them out, id get a set of the 1 1/4 in throat size su's. which is 31.6 or .75 mm i think.
btw, are their any known "mods" i can do to the type 3 (32pdsit) carbs? i think i remember seeing people improving the flow of the passages and stuff like that one other carbs. i know way more about efi than i do performance carbs. of course jetting should need changing. i will study a diagram of the carb if i can find one tonight. thanks _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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wait a second... what if, i add a groove to the main journals before i have it ground? This is something i can do on a lathe right? thanks _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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I don't know how that is done.
If it is "turned" they must be doing something special to prevent chatter, or, I just don't know. |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9640 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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Quote: |
btw, are their any known "mods" i can do to the type 3 (32pdsit) carbs? i think i remember seeing people improving the flow of the passages and stuff like that one other carbs. |
I've done some work on a single old 32 PDSIT but never finished it, nor did the work to the other in the pair, or installed them on an engine. Would've been for a mild Type 1 single-port. The main modification was to cut off the choke housing from the top half of the carb body because it was already partially broken. There was a chunk missing so that even a new choke element would not be sealed inside the housing. This made the carb nice and compact. Cutting off the housing, removing the choke valve and shaft, then plugging the 2 shaft holes with gas tank "kneading" epoxy eliminated a flow restriction. Then I cut off the air cleaner stem, with the intent of using a low-restriction aftermarket air cleaner that fit the top throat. Justification of cutting of the choke housing and removing the choke valve is that most aftermarket carbs don't use an electric choke; the inconvenience of a rough idle for a few minutes when the engine is cold is small compared to the performance gains.
Next, I replaced the original 23 mm venturi with this 27 mm one from aircooled.net. At the time I only bought the venturi, not the discharge tube that is included in the parts listing below. With some minor work such as removing the "airfoil" in the throat and filing off those 2 small nubs at the bottom of the venturi, it fit perfectly into the 32's lower body. I'd need to go with a slightly larger main jet than the original ones. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/35mm-Solex-PDSIT-Vent...enturi.htm
I knife-edged the throttle valve and ground down the throttle shaft between the 2 valve attachment screws to reduce the thickness/reduce airflow restriction as the valve is rotated open.
Crucial is choosing a set of PDSITs at a swap meet that did not have excessive/any throttle shaft play. That might be a difficult find, but at a larger meet you can sometimes fine more than 1 set and you pick the better one that has less play. The 2 sets I bought over the last 10 years were cheap, like no more than $50 for each pair.
You'll probably ask for some photos. Yes, I have a few; which I should post to my gallery... |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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Bushings IN now.
How much force.... to press in the pin bushings?
.004" press+ loctite, turns out, 3000lbs
Is the loctite completely unecessary?....probably, just tradition tho
it doesn't hurt
Honed to .0008" clearance, assuming a .866 pin. Alignment checked, 3 needed very slight correction. Checked the big ends, right at 2.2760" good.
Done |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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Loctite is lube, lol
Well... atleast before it cures
Slippery when wet as it were _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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True, used sunnen pin press, about 1 second.
Loctite not recommended if installing the bushings with only "arm" power. |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:59 am Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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YAY! thanks fir reaming them Mr. Modok. even before the bushings were installed the pins were a bit tight. Cant wait to see em. I got 700 bucks ready to lay down for this engine so mega progress isn't too far away in the future. Thanks again! _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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calvinater Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 3327 Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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good to see you are still at it. keep us posted. _________________ "Albatross"! |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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I didn't feel comfortable with the small box, so I used a bigger box, needed some packing material so I stuffed a blue book in there to help fill the space. |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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Just as expected, the rods came out beautiful! A true work of art. Thanks Modok!
Gots me some hood core heads
32pdsit carbs
Nos german 83mm ring set
A 1600
And some body panels
Also, this book is dope Modok
_________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26777 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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Have to keep in mind.... the time it was written, late 80's.
Aftermarket parts were very limited, and the ONLY parts.... were new parts from the dealer, or totally blowed up used engines.
Gene at that time did not fully understand cylinder head flow ratios, or exhaust system tuning. The stuff about compression ratio is wrong.
The book used to take a lot of flak about the info that was wrong, but that's because A LOT of it was right.
I think.... if Gene had CONTINUED to keep innovating, he would be right there with us, or ahead of us, but that's not what happened..... instead GBE is still around but they build engines like they are stuck in 1990. Not complaining, just saying.
And it's slightly a shame that the book is out of print.
Last few years I rarely see anybody discuss if the "Berg way" is the right way or the wrong way.....you think we finally resolved all the issues?
GREAT!
But no, the real reason is the book is no longer available!
So now you've got he "old testament"
Someday somebody should scan that thing and put it on the net for history's sake, maybe it is your destiny, or maybe it isn't. i don't wanna |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:51 am Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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I'll scan it for you the book ain't that big _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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&Dan Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2008 Posts: 1784
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:43 am Post subject: Re: The most boring build you ever watched... 1385cc |
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That one, the Book Of Instructions, and Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets all have a special place on the bookshelf. |
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