Westy needs a new engine: 2.0 ABA pros/cons?

[shagginwagon83]

I'm wanting some more power in my 83.5 Westy. I think end game I wanted a new TDI motor eventually. Which leads me into leaning towards the FAS kit and a 2.0 ABA.

EJ25 RMW kit seems very 'complete' for roughly $3.5k. The FAS 'basic' kit is roughly the same price but not complete. But the advantage being I should be able to use the motor mount from FAS with my future new TDI motor.

EJ25 would give me more power given my loaded westy.

From my understanding the 2.0 ABA is very reliable - and easily found. a 98 golf with 140k miles for $500 just popped up on my marketplace.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[leecat]

Hi Shaggin'!

Some of us have had great luck with the ABA - Vanagon Nut is a treasure trove of information and I believe he's done a couple swaps. And as you say, that engine is super reliable, cheap like borscht and readily available - you can have your pick for $500 (I've seen some running and driving as cheap as $300) any day of the week.

The ABA has a crazy easy timing procedure, is peanuts to rebuild the top end, parts are cheap too, even the name-brand quality ones. Not a super powerhouse (around 80 hp, iirc) but plenty for the van, in my opinion. With the manual steering in the 83.5 you could run the power steering/ac delete setup to gain a couple more horsepower and simplify the engine too.

Have you considered just the Kennedy adapter plate for the ABA? If you have a custom motor mounting system welded up it has to be one HECK of a lot cheaper than $3.5k. I would choke on that. I mean, I'm a miser to start with, and for that kind of money it better include a bikini-clad Sandra Bullock coming over to install it for me.

Mine ran great and my total cost was circa $400 for the plate, albeit I did my own welding AND was lucky enough that my van already had a brand-new clutch when I bought it. Cooling system mods (lots of hose!), engine mount, some basic wiring (with Vanagon Nut's help), and exhaust work (I used the original exhaust downpipe - runs the exhaust close to the rear left wheel, but it's certainly doable) was all that was needed once I had the plate.

I have a TDI van too, and I like the ABA platform better - I just don't quite trust the TDI for long trips, gets double the mileage of the ABA but always seems a bit 'quirky' in the van - or maybe it's my imagination. Plus when I'm far from home I can find a dozen ABA's in any big wrecking yard - not so with the TDI.

Good luck with whatever you decide tho - super fun project any way you slice it!

[Zeitgeist 13]

I think the ABA is closer to 115hp. I'd probably opt for a 1.8t, since they can also be had cheap, and are quite tough. The FAS system is set at 50 degrees, so either engine is going to need intake manifold work to fit at that angle.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[vwhammer]

As stated, the ABA makes 115hp.
I think if I was going to spend the money on the FAS kit I would go with one of the later 2.0l 8 valve engines.
There is a little more to the wiring as they are drive by wire but you also get to ditch the distributor in favor of a coil pack.

I did my ABA van using the KEP engine adapter and custom everything else.
Knowing what I know now I would have totally used a 99 or newer 2.0 8 valve engine.
I would have much rather run wires to my throttle than fab up my throttle cable.
I also like the idea that there is fewer moving parts in the ignition system.

I ended up with the later model intake on mine and built a custom engine cradle and trans spacer to lower it enough to clear the deck lid.

As time goes on the later engines are getting a lot easier to find and usually have fewer miles on them.
I don't know any of the details between the latest generation of the 2.0 8 valve and the ones that came in the mk4s and such but you can find sub 80,000 mile versions on ebay for $500 or less.
I think they share enough parts that you could even use the mk4 parts on them much like FAS does.

I would have to do a bit more research but I think the later 2.0s are going to be the new budget friendly inline swap very soon and that's definitely the way I would go if I was doing it all over

[vwhammer]

[valvecovergasket]

im torn...
on one hand id recommend going with a nicely built 1.8t or some sort of turbo setup on a 50deg vw inline motor, if your eventual goal is a tdi (though id imagine once done youd have little reason to change it*).
this way you would have at least already dealt with packaging all the ancillaries required to keep a turbo motor happy that could be carried over to your tdi swap.

on the other hand, a sorted 2.5l is a nice thing to drive, it packages well without the headaches of the aforementioned turbo related bits, and i think youd again have little reason to upgrade*


*aside from gas mileage, but depending on your use it may be hard to justify that as the only reason. and keep in mind the gas--> diesel switching will rack up a bit of trans regearing related costs as well.
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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread

[leecat]

Thanks for the update at 115 horse, guys! Ooops! So much for memory!

I loved the 'reversed rotation' 1.8T that a few people have done - but the learning curve just looked way too steep - you'd have to be really committed.

Admittedly there are far more MK4's in the yards now than the MK3's, interesting about the simpler ignition and drive-by-wire AND especially being able to clear the engine lid in the 99+ 2.0...HMMMM....

[MarkWard]

What’s the reason to not just do the TDI conversion and be done? It’s probably a similar amount of work.
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☮️

[?Waldo?]

^^^Indeed, and a lot of the work of the ABA install is the wiring of the engine management which would all get binned with a follow-up TDI install. If possible it would be considerably more time/labor efficient to decide on what engine you actually want and go right for that.

If planning on doing a TDI install in the future, you might want to consider using the dual mass flywheel in order to even out the power pulses to the trans and extend its life. I do not believe the DMF can be used with the FAS adapter plate and I am not sure if the mounts will work with the diesel vanagon bell housing (which does allow use of the DMF).

[Vanagon Nut]

[MarkWard]

VW diesel maintenance is quite a bit less than its gas counterpart, so your savings might be realized sooner than you think just calculating based on mpg. I have found the vw diesels to be quite reliable. Knock wood.
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☮️

[valvecovergasket]

[Vanagon Nut]

[joetiger]

I like mine, but somebody else originally did it and it's a continuing source of trial-and-error experimentation with intake, exhaust, etc. But I like messin' with it.

It features all of the headaches listed above, but when I busted a stud off in the alternator bracket, I went to the u-pull-it yard and got a bracket (with an alternator attached to it) for $20.

If I ever get to go way, way down south as I'd like to, I'm confident that this motor is always going to be fixable and parts available should something go wrong. North American Mk3's were built in Puebla, MX.

I just beat the hell out of it for four days in the Rockies and Moab with nary a peep.

I'd read this VW inline four thread if you haven't already. It's a great resource for seeing what you'd be getting into.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=297697&highlight=vw++inline++four

Here's a great install that fits under the deck lid:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648353&highlight=aba++decklid

Best of luck on whatever you decide.
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[Vanagon Nut]

[vwhammer]

Here is my ABA with an AEG (slightly later 2.0) intake all arranged in my engine bay.

It clears the deck lid.

As I mentioned before other than the KEP engine to auto trans adapter I pretty much built everything else from scratch.

I certainly could have used many more stock parts or slightly modified stock parts and saved a ton of time and maybe a little money but I wanted things to be a certain way.

Here you can see my home built engine cross bar with Mercedes 190e mounts as well as my custom exhaust.

I have electric power steering so no PS pump on the engine and as of right now I am running the stock ABA dipstick but I need to mod that a bit to work in this situation.
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Pretty normal daily driver build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708418&highlight=

4x4 build
https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/volkswagen-vanagon-4x4-conversion.162055/

[dkoesyncro]

The ABA is an excellent engine choice! I personally have walked the line between TDI (M) or even an (E). I recently inquired about going TDI again. I'm currently running on trans mods and 6.17 it's not cost prohibited to start again...ABA I stay

I have an ABA at 15° from the beginning of my build. It's been Rock solid reliable minus some things that I did or QC on a new part. IMO, if you are after reliable and cheap an OBD1 ABA is the way to go, if you are going to add a turbo/SC an OBD1 engine using OBD2 management or standalone (I've since acquired standalone, winter project) At this point though, you're doing it for the passion/obsession of the sport. This being said, a 1.8T AEB is going to be cheapest for a boosted platform, these engines are the EA827 family; roughly ,-1998 on the 8valve and 1997-2001 on the 1.8T. these engines are plentiful and can be used with the inexpensive readily available diesel carrier bars and components. What I also like is this era was very Lego like, 8V, 16V and 20V mostly mix and match and was some engine configuration on some continent somewhere.

Strength in numbers is the biggest motivation for a swap, and at one time my local wreckers and had plenty of VWs but these days it's mostly Subaru in the yards. I'm a VW guy, if I were visiting this from the beginning I'd watch for a complete 1.8T car or TDI with a bad trans for a donor car.

[khughes]

The FAS mounting kit does allow for an ABA install at 50 deg under the lid, or the later AEG / AVH 2.0L engines and others. The hydraulic mounts can be mounted under or over the mounting pads, making about an inch difference in mounting height IIRC.

The kit will also work with diesels but I don't believe it will work with the diesel bell housing - I remember Jon saying the mounting would be too high using it - but don't take that as gospel; my memory ain't what it once was.

I'm inclined toward the I-4 with turbo myself for the performance at altitudes. We spend a lot of time going over and through the rockies when camping, and forced induction really shines when you're in those 10K ft ranges. If you intercool it, it does add a lot of piping that eats into the working space in the compartment, but there you go. Of course, you can supercharge them as well, like the scrolls in the G60s, but a Roots style blower would get pretty old on a long trip. YMMV
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'86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin)

[Vanagon Nut]

That looks great vwhammer! I'll be curious to see how the engine idle works out for but that's another story for another thread.

@ shaggin.

I hesitate to say this, especially since I'm trying to do this via text and images but as a rough guess, it seems guys like hammer, uberaudi et al have some serious looking fabrication skills. I, on the other hand, am kind of "hacky" in that regard. But, as a total newb in most regards, I got my first swap done and learned a great deal along the way. And, on my second better swap, the only real hard to solve "issue", that's likely solved, was an intermittent stall when coming to a stop. Hardly even an issue really. I could "drive around it" if need be. The issues I encountered were due in part to non stock sort of designs I deployed. Partly luck, but neither of my swaps has ever left me stranded.

My points:

one can be more task specific in learning skills to do a more "DIY" type swap.

With enough time, space and online help, one can do a "DIY" swap and can get it running well enough to start working out any small flaws while still driving it.

Also, as has been said or eluded to, in lieu of doing a DIY type swap, using diesel Vanagon parts to do this swap is more of a "bolt up" affair though there are a few things to address when swapping that platform to a WBX vanagon. And don't get me wrong, I really like the FAS stuff and what they're doing but one could get this $700 Vanagon swap kit

http://www.qualitygermanautoparts.com/index.php?p=p1281587145&navt=Diesel%20Components

add a few more parts, send out the wiring harness to a pro and exhaust costs not withstanding, likely do the swap for less than the FAS basic kit cost. But, that's somewhat apples to oranges. (new vs used). If you use a 4-1 exhaust manifold, that keeps costs down. I find the performance of my toilet bowl and 1.9 muffler acceptable.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[shagginwagon83]

Thanks for all the wonderful responses. A close friend is full committed to the ABA and I'm interested on how this goes for him. I'm sure he is going to look at all the information/tips you guys have shared as he hasn't bought the FAS kit yet.

I do like the idea of cheap motor, cheap parts, and reliable. I have drove the h00drat air cooled -> ABA westy and really enjoyed the feedback of the ABA.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689658