Dropping a ‘73 automatic wagon engine

[Pepperbilly]

Last time I did this was about 1985. What confuses me is the auto trans mounting. Why does the trans have to be supported while removing the engine only? Is the trans not supported by the cross members above it? Seems to me if I have disconnected all wiring, cables, 4 bell housing nuts, the three torque convertor bolts, and disconnect the engine hanger the motor should then just pull straight back with the floor jack. Am I not seeing this procedure correctly? Before I try anything I want to make damn sure I don’t screw up.
Bill

[Pepperbilly]

Still trying to drop the engine only and finding info on this is really sketchy. I took a photo of the mid trans hanger and the mounting bolts. I believe that I have to remove a bolt or two bolts to lower the trans a bit so I can slide the engine back and out with a floor jack. The photo is taken on the driver side almost straight up at the end of the trans hanger. Is it the copper colored nut that I should remove? Is it accessed through the engine firewall trim? I think it is all coming back to me now...
Bill

[raygreenwood]

OK....slow down!

There are NUMEROUS important adjustments for engine position and drive train alignment.

They want the transmission supported so you do not damage the tail cone bushing or let the torque converter or oil pump driveshafts fall out. Also...letting it hang from the tail distorts the case. Its less of an issue with the automatic...but can fatally damage the four speed.

There are SEVERAL ways to remove the transmission midpoint mounting. How you do it requires more or less position adjustments to be re-done.

1. This one is the simplest....to get the transmission out but is THE LEAST recommended
Pull the two rubber plugs from the forward engine firewall backing tin....and support the transmission and take weight off the two bolts you see. Remove those bolts....and lower the engine and transmission down. These two bolts go through the center of the rubber bushings on the transmission hanger ears.

The problem is that as the engine and transmission lower...they pivot around the rear/forward tailcone mount....and the transmission moves in an "ARC". As the bushings slide out of the ears...they get tight as they change angle.
Getting it back in this way...sucks...means prying and cursing...and can damage the bushings. I did it this way for years thinking it was the only way.

2. This one is the next in line and works well but is a bit of a pain to get the bolt holes re-aligned....but its not that bad. But God help you if you strip one of these bolts.....so I try not to do this unless I have to.

In the picture above.....the vertical bolt in the green circle...one on each side....NOT the gold colored one with the gold arrow pointing to it...are what you want to remove.
This allows the entire mounting bar to come away from the chassis with the transmission.

NOTE: the gold arrow is pointing to a slot in the crossmember. If you take that bolt loose on either end...you disturb the side-to-side adjustment of the drive train position. Leave those bolts alone.

3. This method is one of the best. Its what I use:

Note in the picture above...the bolt on the right hand side with the red arrow...part #18. There are two of these on each side...vertical bolts....10mm I think.

These bolt the mounting bushings/brackets to the chassis mounted carrier bar. If you support the transmission.....and pull both bolts on both sides.....the transmission drops straight down. I use two 12" ratchet extension bars while laying on my back.....with a breaker bar to crack teh bolts loose...and then ratchet them out.

IMPORTANT NOTE:...notice the part in the red circle on the right hand side....part #24. These are shims that are clamped between the bushing brackets and the chassis mounting bar. They are VERY IMPORTANT. They set the alignment of the engine and transmission in the vertical plane at the mounting bar.
There may be a different shim in each side or one side may have one and the other not...or there may be more than one shim on either side. Mark them for the side they came out of...bag them...put them in the glove box....and do not lose them.

Ray

[Pepperbilly]

Ah yes! It’s all coming back to me now. I only pulled the engine two times and that was way back in the ‘80’s. I always used method #1 and never any ill effects. I certainly did not know though that there were so many critical adjustments and alignments! I always am in the habit of marking positions when taking things apart. Maybe that’s why I have very few problems. I will stay away from “GOD HEIP ME” method #2...LOL! Maybe I’ll go with #3. I am pulling the engine first but the trans will come out also for resealing etc. There will be no shortcuts on this 412. Thanks for getting back to me...you are the MAN!
Bill

[raygreenwood]

Method # 2 is not bad....its just that on e hour start jacking the engine up until tje bar makes contact with the chassis....the hole in tbe bar and hole on the chassis rarely line up. Hou have to jiggle and slew things around....and you want you make sure the bolt goes in straight.

#3.....is really good.....it has a small amount of jiggling but the mounts flex a little. You put one bolt in on each side.....with the shim(s) on that bolt. This locates it and keeps it from falling out. The other end of the shim is slotted so you put in tjat bolt and then swing the shim sideways to the bolt and then tighten everything up.

The advantage of #3 os that the mounting ears and bushings stay on the transmission in the same positions.

The upper horizontal alot adjusting bolt is there to allow side to side movememt of the whole package....to make sure the side gaps on the tail cone bushing are correct. You alao have side to sixe adjustments on the ends of the rear hanger bar. You alao have bertical adjustments on the rear hanger bar to adjust the vertical gaps on the tail cone bushing and to prevent exceasive load on the middle nar bushings and control the crush of the center rear hanger bar bushings.....for which there is a apec.

Ray

[titan3c]

I'm glad to see this information, because I'm strongly considering removing my engine and transmission for the same reasons. I personally can't do it by myself. I have competent VW vintage help available, but not Type 4 oriented. There is a post about removing the engine, but so far I can't find it. I remember in that post there was instruction not to remove a certain bolt. I need to know which one. Bob

[whobba]

I'm going to remove the engine in my auto 412, too - glad you guys are discussing how to do it! I've been removing all the tin and exhaust and intake parts ahead of time, so it will be just the long block that comes out. Hopefully that makes it easier.
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[Pepperbilly]

[titan3c]

Does this information work for automatic transmission too? Bob

[CAVEHEAD]

Hey There,

Guess what - I'm next. Getting ready to remove the engine and Auto-trans from my 412 wagon. So, after all that great information ya'll shared question. I've been told that pulling both at the same time is a must or easier. Is that the best way ? My end game is to replace the auto-trans with a manual from a donor car

Cave

[raygreenwood]

[CAVEHEAD]

Hey Ray,

You are the man, a cornucopia of 411 and 412 information and instructions. Have you ever thought of putting all your help and instructions based on your years of posts on Samba in a book or Q&A web site "Type 4 tips and tricks" ? I would buy it or subscribe to the site right now

Best Regards
Cave Head

[raygreenwood]

[CAVEHEAD]

Perfect Idea , please post the links - Where is the "How-To" section ? Cave

[raygreenwood]