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Hawker
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2012
Posts: 124
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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| I have also been thinking about using its power ports...for work lights....and maybe making a cool plug that plugs into the front when you open the flap....and I think in mine that not all slots are used. It might be nice to see what else I can plug into it. Ray |
Well, if you can make plugs to fit, there will certainly be interest from me, Ray. I bet a computer whizz could easily knock up an interface and programme so we could do our own diagnosis on a PC like the BMW guys do. The old VW/Audi/NSU equipment is too big and bulky, plus they’re silly money if you see them for sale.
BR,
Rob |
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KTPhil 
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Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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NurseryWalt
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Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Abbotsford, BC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Another cold Saturday spent in the shed with my beloved 412, but not as cold as the week before. A bit of a downer as I only have 3 electrical wires left to pull and I came up with a big zero. One is the wire which runs from the automatic shifter back to the transmission.
The other two wires will also probably have to stay until the mechanic pulls the engine and transmission.
So I finished up a few other items such as pulling all four window regulators.
Then I removed the gas flap release. This will need a tiny repair to the plastic housing. Everything else seems to work but the pull knob is missing.
And finally, I removed all the sound deadening asphalt/tar in the doors.
The best news of the day was taking all the fenders, trunk lid, engine lid to my restorer and the media blasting will begin. All my tires need to be unmounted and the wheel rims need to be painted before installing new tires. Anyone have a favourite size of tire or brand they recommend?
Walter
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'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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A couple of things:
You need to repair that gas flap cable and it may be pretty simple...as simple as putting on a new sheathing.....but you need to go through the whole cable.
Check this out:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=656055&highlight
OK...tires on the 411 and 412...are MY can of worms!  
While I appreciate anyone who is doing a "restoration"....and i understand the originality aspect....I do not believe in staying with the stock 4.5" rims unless this is a "show queen" or weekend slow cruiser car. Stock rims were great rims.
But....there is not enough meat on the pavement of a long distance traveler or daily or even semi daily driver at highway speeds in the modern world. The key is handling to avoid idiots and braking to avoid assholes. Survivability is key for my 412.
OK....that was my disclaimer! That out of the way.....if you are going to use the original tire seizes and rims....you had pretty much three tires to choose from.
1. The bias ply from the 411 (which I do not thin ever came here with bias ply tires) which was 155SR-15 which means 155/80-15. If you want this size...and I had a set of 155's on my 411 once....and IT SUCKED. These are a good tire. Radial instead of bias ply...made for classic cars...but CANNOT BE DRIVEN IN COLD WEATHER. Read the warnings.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...mpare1=yes
Vredestein makes a good tire.
2. The stock size of radial tire which was 165/SR-15 (165/80-15)...some were 75 series.
Same tire in 165/80-15:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.j...iameter=15
And....The Michelin XZX. ...these were KILLER tires back in the day if you had stock size tires. Every REAL European car back in the day drove on these, Semperit or Vredestein.
I have not one bad thing to say about these tires. In the stock tire size they were excellent....back in the day...but not as good as modern tires are now And...Michelin is making them again!
https://classic.michelin.com/en/Classic-Tyre-range/XZX
3. The tires everyone went to...and even dealers....because it was THAT MUCH BETTER handling and braking the 185/SR-15 (185/80-15) which was about the largest tire that fit on the stock rim and had no problems. Again, some were 75 series but hard to tell.
Again...same tire in 185/80-15:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...mpare1=yes
And....about five years earlier in the 70's than the XZX and MX which were both "touring tires" you had the "XWX"...which was a VR speed rated tire.
Michelin is making it again....in 185/70-15...which is excellent. Best you could get in stock tire size in a classic tire. Back around 1979-80 had one pair of these I got lightly used from a car that died from a rear end that had the tires for only a few months. They were superb tires.
https://classic.michelin.com/en/Classic-Tyre-range/XWX
Again...these were all REALLY good tires...all of the above. But their tread designs and rubber compounds.... compared to now.... are what really puts them BEHIND modern tires.
I have no idea if the rubber compounds have been upgraded on these.
What size wheel are you using?
Personally....I would get rid of the stock 4.5" wide wheels and go to a set of aftermarket stock rims in 5.5"
When you do that...going to a 195/60-15.....is FAR, FAR better than stock in handling, braking etc. You can also run 205 60-15 (I ran these for about 200k miles) or the lowest profile I think you should safely run with the stock ball joint is 205-55-15.
So...some comparisons to see what these tires will change from the stock tires. Bear in mind that these are just the circumference. The tire compresses its lower side wall with weight on it. And...The lower profile tires flex less so stay closer to accurate and the taller side walls flex alot so they are a little lower than this would imply.
Stock and near stock sizes for 4.5” rim:
155/80-15=481.65 Circumference (sidewall of 124mm or 4.882”)- 131.548 revs per mile. Bias ply only
165/80-15=506.47 Circumference (sidewall height of 132mm or 5.20”)- 125.101 revs per mile Benchmark radial tire size
185/80-15= 557.97 Circumference (sidewall height of 148mm or 5.827”)- 113.554 revs per mile (10.168% DECREASE in speedometer reading from benchmark)
185/70-15= 498.76 Circumference (sidewall height of 129.5mm or 5.10”)- 127.04 revs per mile
(1.55% INCREASE in speedometer reading from benchmark)
Tire sizes for 5.5” rim
195/60-15= 460.19 Circumference (sidewall height of 117mm or 4.606”)- 137.682 revs per mile
(10.06% INCREASE in speedometer reading from benchmark)
205/55-15= 447.65 Circumference (sidewall height of 112.75 or 4.439”)- 141.539 revs per mile
(13.14% INCREASE in speedometer reading from benchmark)
205/60-15= 478.62 Circumference (sidewall height of 123mm or 4.843”)- 132.38 revs per mile
(5.81% INCREASE in speedometer reading from benchmark)
205/65-15= 510.38 Circumference (sidewall height of 133.25mm or 5.25”)- 124.143 revs per mile
(0.78% DECREASE in speedometer reading from benchmark)
The overall best grip and close enough speedo reading were the 205/60-15 tires. Superb handling.
If you want to know what I recommend in the 5.5" wheel tires I will list them later.
But first...have to tell you. The VERY best tire I have had on my 2012 Golf....and I went through two pairs of them. I drove them YEAR round...in ALL WEATHER....at 85mph highway speeds...in heat and in snow and ice.....and they were SUPERB. Best tires I have ever driven on in all respects.
They were Continental extreme winter...high speed, asymmetrical snow tires. Year round in Iowa...three months in Connecticut winter...never slips on snow or ice. They were second to the Bridgestone blizzack winter/all season radials by only about 2 feet of braking distance...and surpassed it and numerous other tires in dry pavement grip.
Outstanding tread pattern...wet...dry...ice...snow...high speed ...rain...damn the rain driving was KILLER....summer hot pavement....awesome!
https://simpletire.com/paid?v=1&tireSize=lt235...w8EALw_wcB
Yes....they only lasted about 35-40k miles each set....but think of snow tires that you do not have to remove and sacrifice "0" in summer. It was 80+ mph highway dry pavemnt that wore them out....but if its only around town...you can get 50k miles from them
I am not sure if they still make them....but when I go to put tires on my 412....it will be a set of those.
or if I cannot get those it will be these:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...terSection
They also have these in 195/60-15, 195/65-15 and 185/65-15
Or These...these are kind of the replacement for the continentals I listed above I think:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...terSection
They also have these in 195/55-15, 195/65-15 and 185/65-15.
If you wanted these in stockish tires on 4.5" rims.....you could go with 185/65...and get better handling. I will have to calculate those and the 195/55's.
Note.....correction. Hawker pointed out that a couple of my tire calculations statements of speedometer reading change were incorrect. I stated "INCREASE" in speedometer reading and it should havd read DECREASE etc. Sorry....too many calculations going on at one time. Its been corrected. Thanks for pointing it out!
Simply stated....if the benchmark factory tire size is ~125" circumference.....any tire that is smaller in circumference than 125" will have to make more revolutions per mile to cover the same distance.....so the speedometer reading will read artificially "faster".
Likewise.....any tire whose circumference is larger than 125" will have to make less rotations per mile to cover the same distance....so the reading of the speedometer will be artificially slower.
Remember.....this is because our tires are direct reading off of the wheel rotation.
Ray
Last edited by raygreenwood on Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NurseryWalt
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Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Abbotsford, BC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Thank you Ray for that detailed analysis on tire brands and sizes. Part of my decision will also be influenced how easy they will be to obtain in Canada. I'll check with my local suppliers first before ordering via internet. I'm probably going to stick with the stock rims for now as I don't see myself driving this car on the highways much. But it is always good to consider all the alternatives before making any decision. That is why I appreciate your experience and knowledge.
Walter
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'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project |
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NurseryWalt
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Pepperbilly
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Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Walter,
I am out of town right now but when I get back friday I will let you you know the tires I purchased. I would be careful about buying chrome wheels because the chroming quality may not be too good. The tires I bought were the stock size and I believe around $90 a tire. I am trying like you to remain with the original look and performance which I remember really liking. All my original steel wheels I had media blasted and powder coated wiith a Cardinal brand silver sparkle...looks just like they were back in the day  . It cost me about $80 a wheel.
Bill |
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MarcVoss
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Joined: July 21, 2019
Posts: 67
Location: DE, Munich
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Two years ago, when I get my Squareback, I also wanted large tyres. So I used 195/65R15 on 5,5“, which is a very familary size, there are a lot of manufactors and the price is quiet good. But - I feel, that these are a sensitive on bad streets, because of lanes (right word ?).
So I went back to 165/80R15 on 4,5“. I used Beetle rims, they are interchangeable with my other cars. But 4,5“ rims are small, in some curves problems can come up.
Last year I was able to get a very good set of 5,5“ rims (classic design) and with 165/80R15 mounted. These are much more stable in curves, but less senstive on bad lanes. I think a good choose for long distance traveling.
Due to my short manual gearbox (FC) I prefer Tyres with a huge Diameter to reduce the motorspeed. Two weeks ago I bought a set of 185/70WR15, the Manufactor is Kleber (Dynaxer HP 4) which is a company in the Michelin group. The price per Tyre was 50€. Luckily I ordered on the right day, it was similary to the wall street, on the next day the price was 70€ (~85$). Soon I will mount too of the new 185/70 to test how it will work on bad lanes. Then I will take my decision, 165 or 185 but in every case, I use the 5,5" rims.
See the car with 165 on 5,5“rims, not even looking too bad:
_________________
Best Regards from Germany, the origin country of Volkswagen.
Marc |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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| MarcVoss wrote: |
Two years ago, when I get my Squareback, I also wanted large tyres. So I used 195/65R15 on 5,5“, which is a very familary size, there are a lot of manufactors and the price is quiet good. But - I feel, that these are a sensitive on bad streets, because of lanes (right word ?).
So I went back to 165/80R15 on 4,5“. I used Beetle rims, they are interchangeable with my other cars. But 4,5“ rims are small, in some curves problems can come up.
Last year I was able to get a very good set of 5,5“ rims (classic design) and with 165/80R15 mounted. These are much more stable in curves, but less senstive on bad lanes. I think a good choose for long distance traveling.
Due to my short manual gearbox (FC) I prefer Tyres with a huge Diameter to reduce the motorspeed. Two weeks ago I bought a set of 185/70WR15, the Manufactor is Kleber (Dynaxer HP 4) which is a company in the Michelin group. The price per Tyre was 50€. Luckily I ordered on the right day, it was similary to the wall street, on the next day the price was 70€ (~85$). Soon I will mount too of the new 185/70 to test how it will work on bad lanes. Then I will take my decision, 165 or 185 but in every case, I use the 5,5" rims.
See the car with 165 on 5,5“rims, not even looking too bad:
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Something everyone needs to understand.....when going to a wider tire and rim....like going with a 195/65-15 tire on a 5.5 from a 65/80-15 tire on a 4.5" rim.......YOU MUST....totally change ALL of your alignment settings.
You will be unstable on the larger tire and rim....UNLESS you add more castor and more toe in. The wider the tire tread the more spreading force there is from forward motion.
On average it requires about 2.5* MORE toe-in to allow driving with the wider rim and tire....unless you also go to harder bushings (n the 411 and 412)....and in that case you will still need about 1.0* to 1.5* of MORE toe in.
Even more importantly you will ALWAYS require more castor angle with the wider tire. On a type 3 this is complex because you have to add castor shims.
On the 411/412....which is already short on castor from the factory....you will need to adjust the subframe ...and add in a little adjustment. This can be done in about 3 hours to add in as little as 1* to 1.5*. But to go to about 3* or more it may take a little longer.
The 411 and 412 with their nose high attitude are already short on static castor. This means they wander in the wind. Going to a lower profile tire...fixes some of the static castor problem....and gets rid of the wind wandering....but the wider tread makes them more successful to "tram-lining"...which means the tires catch every crack and line in the road and make teh car want to change lanes.
Tram-lining is an "indicator" that you have too little or too much castor and toe-in combined.
So....what I am saying...is that you cannot simply swap tires and rims. You need to adjust for the changes.
As for teh Nanking tires. They are made in Taiwan....and are pretty good. Overall good quality....but they still have some common quality control issues. I also do not know how sophisticated the tread designs and compounds are for their street tires. But they are far better than a lot of the Chinese tires I have seen.
BUT.....that package from CIP1 in Canada.....that is not saving you any money. It fact its not saving you any money. Its just convenient.
Just the wheels....silver, steel 4.5" x 15"....are $98 each Canadian. Call that $425 C with tax. That leaves $138.00 per "Taiwanese" tire....with tax.
That pricey for just a decent quality tire. Nankings are good....but you can get better for that price.
You can get the same 165/80-15 I listed above at The tire rack Canada for $124.11 C each. Still...just a summer tire.
But if you wanted to go up to a 5.5" rim and go to a 195/65-15 or a 205/60 or 65-15...there are tons of great tire choice....modern tires...for cheaper than the Nankings...at Tire Rack Canada and even some nanking equivalents for cheaper than Nanking....at Canadian Tire....same as this one
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...gLzc_D_BwE
Yep....I know you have a few less tire options in Canada but there are some. I would not automatically settle for Nankings.....just for the deal on rims.
I think the Cip1 rim prices are good. A set of four would be nice....but I would shop for better tires elsewhere.
Also of note....all of the aftermarket steel wheels are good enough...but they are of lesser quality than the factory wheels. A little thinner and softer and take a spread quicker with long term sitting still and are more prone to dents from bumps.
So....if you can easily fix your stock rims and if they are straight...do so. Ray |
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NurseryWalt
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Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Abbotsford, BC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Lots of great ideas for tires. For now, I'm going to stay as original as possible and get the wheels media blasted and all cleaned up. My restorer did that beautifully on the '66 Bug so I'm confident he can do it again on the 412. With the different options of tires, I did look at Tire Rack Canada, but the Vredestein Sprint Classics seem to come from Denver, CO with a shipping cost of $129.78 for 4 tires. That's still no guarantee that there aren't importing fees or delays getting them across the border. So I may settle for the Nankangs (tires only) just because they are here locally and I only need to buy 4 tires. The way I figure, I can always upgrade a few years down the road when the border opens up again and I can use a personal exemption when crossing.
Walter
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'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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| NurseryWalt wrote: |
Lots of great ideas for tires. For now, I'm going to stay as original as possible and get the wheels media blasted and all cleaned up. My restorer did that beautifully on the '66 Bug so I'm confident he can do it again on the 412. With the different options of tires, I did look at Tire Rack Canada, but the Vredestein Sprint Classics seem to come from Denver, CO with a shipping cost of $129.78 for 4 tires. That's still no guarantee that there aren't importing fees or delays getting them across the border. So I may settle for the Nankangs (tires only) just because they are here locally and I only need to buy 4 tires. The way I figure, I can always upgrade a few years down the road when the border opens up again and I can use a personal exemption when crossing.
Walter |
I can't fault the logic!
Also.....start a thread for the Nankings. Long term review.
See.....I am DAMN picky on tires. The vast majority of the gendral auto driving public these days (outside of auto enthusiasts).....fall into two categories from what I can see:
1. To those in group 1.....tires are tires, Oil is oil and gasoline is gasoline.....all the same just buy the cheapest. And they "mostly" get away with it. Mostly.
This is because modern cars have sophisticated 3 and 4 link suspension. Even the crapliest, cheapest econobox has less overall handling and vibration issues than most cars from 30 years ago. The suspensions are far better calibrated now. Tbey keep the tires in contact better and have less over and under compensation of damping.
They are more forgiving of tires that have poor design or materials.
But....a lot of the people who buy the cheapest crappy tires..... are the those that are stunned when hydroplaning happens or when what was billed as all season is worthless on snow or ice......or maybd does okay until peculiarly.....the temp drops to just the right level.....or when temps rise to just the right level and all grip goes away......or exceedingly low mileage lifespan......or tires that mysteriously cannot be balanced......or and this is common.....tires that start out great....and around 25-30k miles they wear down to either harder tread and lose all grip. Or.....wear down a bit and then greatly accelerate wear.
2. The 2nd group is better but is an educated subset of the first group. .....they still dont really care and would like to spend as little as possible......but they research.....mostly online.....which is good......but the search is more heavily weighted towards cost.
Meaning like "Alexa.....whats the best winter tire I can get that also does good on dry pavement.....in the $75 range?" 
So.....I am thinking of starting a 411/412 ONLY tire thread. I will ask everett to leave it alone. It will not compete with the custom tire and wheel forum.
The 411 and 412 have totally different suspension and handling issues. The only car that comes close is the super beetle. Having logged probably more miles in 411 and 412 than most people here and used many tires and had suspension that ranged from stock new, stock worn out, stock modified etc.....I can tell you that the tire choice, quality and size make one of the single largest differences in 411 and 412.....much more so as compared to beetle, type 3 and bay bus....which I have also driven extensively.
This is not saying that good tires do not make a huge difference in all cars and all ACVW. But......because of the suspension geometry and characteristics....and a few design flaws....of the 411 and 412.....it makes a much more profound difference.
All of that said.....I cannot say enough about GOOD modern tires.
You will notice that the tire sellers are slowly getting away from the UTQG rating system. The tire manufafturers are not.....but the tire sellers are. This is because too often the UTQG rating bears little reality to actual performance like it did 20 years ago.....both in a poaitive and negative factor. Some tires wear out quick.....some last far longer than their rating suggests.....and handling is all over the place.
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp...MvEALw_wcB
This is also why I cannot sing the praises enough of the Tire Rack. Not because their prices are all that cheap like they used to be a decade ago when they and discount tire were the only online full wholesaler in the game.......but because of:
A. They have their own test tracks....and do SERIOUS testing and reporting on tire and brake product performance.
B. Their user review search engine. It has more players now but is a little less accurate tha it used to be. It hsed to be that you plug in your car model....and the tire you are shopping.....and it pulls up HUNDREDS of actual user reviews long and short term.....of that tire on either YOUR vehicle or other near vehciles in its class.
It still does that well but it can get pretty mixed sometimes on vehicle type.
Numerous times....I have been lookong at a tire that the vehicle manufacturer, tire manufacturer....even the atire Rack testkng and general concensus says is great for your car and needs.
Then you dig through about 50+ actual reviews. And.....make note that along the line you see 7-10 reviews with roughly the same car or class of car.....that run into the same peculiar problem like "great tire....but.....extreme slipping when going from wet to dry pavement right after a rain storm"......or......"great tire....but at around 25K miles....noise increased radically and one or more tires cannot be balanced"
.......both of these....show a pattern of either poor rubber compounding, poor tread design or poor manufacturing.
The tire rack TESTING .....shows performance. And....its usually spot on. But.....the user review history.....shows longevity and defects.
Great site....great company.
I have had tires on my 412....that nearly killed me because they had LESS capability under certain conditions than the cars suspension did. And....worse.....I have had tires whose grip, virbration or pull characteristics.....made some of the peculiar issues of the 411/412 suspension....even worse.
Back in 1996 through 2001.....I had settled in a tire that was SUPERB fof the 412...with the audi strut mod. It was the Continental CH90 sport contact.
Aggressive European style tread....looked like it belonged on our cars. Mine were 205/60-15 on 5.5" x 15 stock wheels. They had an extremely accurate UTQG rating as most tires did back then.
They listed traction of A, temperature of A.....and treadwear rating of only 280. Most high end tires ....mileage minded....would not have bought anything less than 400.
But......the 280 treadwear rating meant that the tread was grippy enough to almost leave fingernail marks in. They stuck to the road like feraking GLUE!.....in all weather. They wore out meaning down to the wear bars... in roughly 30k miles....40k max.. They handled perfectly all the way to the treadwear bars.
With the lower profile sidewall.....I cannot,say enough about how well these handled. I went through four sets....before I parked the car for restoration.
I am pretty sure they no longer make them.
https://www.petestireandautoservice.com/browse/tires/Continental-11/Conti-Sport-Contact-CH90-6789
But the difference on this car....with these tires.....was night and day....and its what got me started on my tire quest.
Ray |
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Hawker
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Joined: October 03, 2012
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Hello Ray,
Continental still make those tyres, but only in 1 size 205/60 R15. That’s good news if you have 5.5” rims.
BR,
Rob |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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| Hawker wrote: |
Hello Ray,
Continental still make those tyres, but only in 1 size 205/60 R15. That’s good news if you have 5.5” rims.
BR,
Rob |
Really? ...... Cool!
The interesting thing.......is that I have thought about this very issue......on several different occasions over the years.
Back in about 1990-93.....pre-internet days.....when ACCURATE comparison shopping of tires and many other products was virtually impossible unless you travelled very extensively (I did) and spoke to a lot of people on the phone (I did) and had tons of spare time (I did not)............I used to just bitch in frustration that Michelin no longer made the XZX or that several other companies no longer made specific lat 70s and early 80s tires that were KNOWN to be good enough and fit our cars.
It was so easy at one point to get a tire that was known to perform to an adequate or better than adequate level. It was just about having the money when you needed them.
The Michelin XZX, The Pirelli Centurato, Dunlop SP and D75.....all were hallmark tires of the mid 70s to early to mid 80s for most European cars whose handling had to at least be uniform. These tires as a group were pretty much looked upon as "European car tires".
Big sloppy American iron would rarely be caught on tires like these. First because they were not commonly available in those widths and secondly.....without whitewalls or raised white letters.....what classic American car owner would use them?
Once I stumbled onto the Continental CH-90.....which I would say was one of those hallmark tires of the next era.....1990's.....which was a whole group of tires that were most commonly seen on Euro and Asian cars....again ....that required better than basic handling......I realized that I probably would not want to go back to my 1980's Michelin XzX or similar.....because thr CH-90's and newer tires of the later era....handled SO MUCH better.
It was just development. Better rubber compounds and more sophisticated tread designs.
So this same thought process has happened again.
I would have to SERIOUSLY think about whether or not to use the CH-90 tire.....now. this is because the tires of the last decade up until now with current tire technology.....are loght-years ahead of what was in the 80s.....and miles ahead of what was in the 1990s.
I think the tread pattern of the CH-90 still holds up fine......but unless its slowly been upgraded......the materials of current modern tires are just outstanding.
Back about 20 years ago....I think Michelin was the first to make temperature variable/adjusting tread compounds. Now everyone does. This technology makes a noticable and HUGE difference.
All season high performance tires.....really are now high performance in all season.
Of course I also have to think about how I will be using my 412 moving forward as compared to back then.
It will never again be a serious daily driver required to go anywhere, anytime including 1000+ mile drives in any weather. Just too much risk and I have a modern daily driver.
From that point of view.....I would not hesitate probably if it were just local cruising and fun....to go with new production Michelin XZX. I have read that they have updated some of the production technology.
For slightly higher usage.....just cruising local for fun and possibly to a few shows...medium distance.....I would probably not hesitate to use a set of current production CH-90s.
But if I start doing occasional long distance vacation/touring type drives at modern highway speeds in my 412....I might opt for new current tire designs.
Ray |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Hey everyone,
This is what I bought in november based on very positive reviews. This was through PerformancePlusTires out of LA... free shipping. These are stock size Firestone F 560 for the ‘73 wagon...165 R 15 classic car tire. Have not tested them yet...gonna be a while.
Bill
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Abelclasico
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: Carrboro, NC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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| those wheels are looking very nice. Did you repaint them yourself or had somebody do it for you? I see that you have a few spares too |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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They are the original stock wheels and 2 were purchased for snow tires only back in the ‘70’s. Had them media blasted and powder coated with an original look color. They came out great considering their rusty condition.
Bill |
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Abelclasico
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 152
Location: Carrboro, NC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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I have been considering powder coating some wheels, but was wondering if it is worth it, given that new wheels are still available for purchase. Would you mind telling us how much you paid for powder coating your wheels?
thanks,
Abel |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Abel,
I spent $80 a wheel to have them blasted and powder coated. I think with new wheels you may still have to paint them. Also the quality probably is not up to original standards.
Bill |
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MarcVoss
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2019
Posts: 67
Location: DE, Munich
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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| Quote: |
Also the quality probably is not up to original standards.
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That‘s of course a reason to use the old rims.
Specially on Squarebacks. One rear wheel must be good for more than 500 kg. If you buy Mangels from Brasil, they are specified for 400 kg. This may last for beetles, but not for this car. Ok, for the Fastbacks you can use these.
And now there are new rims offered, no papers included. So nobody knows, how many kilograms they will withstand. Not my choice.
_________________
Best Regards from Germany, the origin country of Volkswagen.
Marc |
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NurseryWalt
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Abbotsford, BC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Walt's 1973 412 Barn Find |
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Here's another update on the "Barn Find" from yesterday morning. During the week my bodyman friend and his upholsterer friend came by to pick up the wheels and upholstery. The upholsterer phoned me a few days later to inform me he found the exact shade of leather available in Canada. He loves doing headliners. Also, carpets no problem. He works for 360 Fabrication in Abbotsford, BC which is getting to be well-known for their million dollar car restorations! I'm hoping it will be less than that.
Also during the week, the Nankang "poop" tires made in Taiwan arrived. I'll keep you posted how they work in the long run.
Saturdays work mainly consisted of loading up the chrome bumpers to take to a rechromer. They'll be done either June or July. The guy is good, slow, and expensive. Here is the before shot.
I really didn't accomplish that much as the 412 got a visitor, a 1974 TR6.
So certain things are moving along very nicely.
Walter
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'66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project |
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