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Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust]
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epowell
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

I wonder if anyone can help me to Identify what looks to me like some strange welding behind the front upper controlling arm. See pics.
!
Last year I had noticed some nasty rust occurring there in what otherwise is a near prestine original un-rusted front frame area.

Current this rusted area is not accessible for grinding at all, so I just tried to spray some rust-primer paint on the area to buy some time...

After painting a bit I took these fotos, and it looks very weird. Like some hack welding job done with a flux-core welder. And nobody put some paint over the welding job it looks like, that is why the rust started there. .....or, is this a stock set up and I'm imagining things?

Anyhow I'm going to try to spray some more paint back there somehow, and look forward to anyone identifying what is actually going on back there.

Otherwise the body is absolutely amazing... original, and no rust! Except for some surface rust in some areas that I've now dealt with...
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

My guess is the floor was partially removed to get that access or maybe the access was with the tank removed. Thatís a mess. Going to be difficult to repair properly. Itís what we call dribble welds.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

Sweet Jesus
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epowell
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
My guess is the floor was partially removed to get that access or maybe the access was with the tank removed. Thatís a mess. Going to be difficult to repair properly. Itís what we call dribble welds.


No the floor is prestine... must have been done with the tank removed.

But what where they trying to repair? Doesn't make an sense.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

Thatís the upper control arm pivot. It likely seized at one point and beer canned loose. I would not trust it at all. Too bad I crushed a rust free chassis last spring. It would have had good donor parts.

I realize your time is short with this van and I watched your other van rust repair. This is structural and to be fixed correctly is a major undertaking. Canít skip on safety. Sorry.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Thatís the upper control arm pivot. It likely seized at one point and beer canned loose. I would not trust it at all. Too bad I crushed a rust free chassis last spring. It would have had good donor parts.



But why would it then be BOTH sides? If it just came loose, wouldn't most likely that just affect one side?

So you think it came loose and some bugger just threw a few bogus welds at it to try to solidify it?

Totally amazing that they didn't even then spray a bit of paint on those welds.... very terrible repair job. As we know we saw so many terrible repair jobs on my communist czech frankenvan... and here all this time I am have been saying that the standard of Canadian repair work is many time superior!!! Seems that the only thing "higher" about Canadian repairing is the PRICE!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

Too hard to tell anything at this point. How is the opposite side? Itís holding as ugly as it is. Think about it over the winter. Maybe formulate a plan of attack. It will all need to be cut back to the good metal. Then a new replacement part fabricated and welded in. Itís not a complex part. There is a thread where someone discussed raising the pivot point. To restore geometry on a lifted van. I did not book mark it.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

I love the lurid red glow of the photos - gives it that hellish quality it deserves. Looks like something Hitler welded up for Satan's chariot.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Too hard to tell anything at this point. How is the opposite side? Itís holding as ugly as it is. Think about it over the winter. Maybe formulate a plan of attack. It will all need to be cut back to the good metal. Then a new replacement part fabricated and welded in. Itís not a complex part. There is a thread where someone discussed raising the pivot point. To restore geometry on a lifted van. I did not book mark it.


The fotos I've shown are from BOTH sides. Somehow the exact same repair has been done on both sides in the same way. Who knows why?

Yes it is holding... I drove it the 2 hour drive home from where I bought it and it rides perfectly.

This "TUBE" that the pin runs thru?? ....is this the part that needs to be fabricated?
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It looks like perhaps the frame came disconnected and there is a gap here: ?
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Looks like they welded on a couple of "L" braces to the side of each frame?
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I'm trying to figure out how they ACCESSED this area? ...and how I will access it in the future for correcting this?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

Itís actually not a pin but a very long bolt. The camber is maintained and adjusted with this bolt. Time to start searching upper control arm bushings in the gallery and threads. The manual would also be a good reference.

That work while hacked looking, prevented the van from being junked. No shop is really setup for that. Itís a specialized repair.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Itís actually not a pin but a very long bolt. The camber is maintained and adjusted with this bolt. Time to start searching upper control arm bushings in the gallery and threads. The manual would also be a good reference.

That work while hacked looking, prevented the van from being junked. No shop is really setup for that. Itís a specialized repair.


Yes I did extensive work on UCAs on my Czech van... nightmare getting those long bolts out...

Are you saying that "tube" needs fabricating and replacing?

What actually happened? The long bolt seized, and then the tube loosened, and perhaps the frame members there also loosened from eachother?

Therefore the 'repair' was to reattached and tighten up the TUBE and the frame members back together?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

If it were me, Iíd cut one side free, and mimic it with mild steel pieces. Iíd have to have it in my hand and the chassis prepped for my fabricated assembly to formulate how I was going to fabricate it. Other than the camber adjustment itís not a complicated part. The tube is there to maintain the distance as you torque the bolt to spec. Without a spacer, it would fold.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
If it were me, Iíd cut one side free, and mimic it with mild steel pieces. Iíd have to have it in my hand and the chassis prepped for my fabricated assembly to formulate how I was going to fabricate it. Other than the camber adjustment itís not a complicated part. The tube is there to maintain the distance as you torque the bolt to spec. Without a spacer, it would fold.


I'm still a bit confused... is it the TUBE that you would fabricate new?

Then get rid of that original TUBE and weld on another? ...and re-do those "L" support brackets?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

I've seen a couple high mile vans with significant cracks in that area. One belonged to me for a short while and I paid a mobile welder to tackle it. It was a long time ago and no I don't have photos. I found mine while trying to track down strange noises.

Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
I've seen a couple high mile vans with significant cracks in that area. One belonged to me for a short while and I paid a mobile welder to tackle it. It was a long time ago and no I don't have photos. I found mine while trying to track down strange noises.

Mark


I found this by noticing the RAW RUST. The weld was done and then not painted so as we know, un-covered welds rust like crazy. So upon investigation of how well I had termporarily painted these spots, I noticed the tell tail signs of bad flux core welds (I'm an expert at doing those).

But this seems like an uncommon problem, I can not find anything anywhere where anyone is tackling a similar issue.

No pics, nothing.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

I would remake it all. Iíd build it on the bench as a complete assembly and then weld it to the chassis. I would make measurements or a fabricate a temporary jig prior to removing it so that I could relocate the one I fabbed up.

This is not something Iíd recommend for a weekend warrior. In fact, for a passenger van like this, Iíd find another roller and crush this one. I already own 2, so itís easier for me to type that. Itís a major project. I would expect 40 hours a side to do what I describe. It would end up better than new.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I would remake it all. Iíd build it on the bench as a complete assembly and then weld it to the chassis. I would make measurements or a fabricate a temporary jig prior to removing it so that I could relocate the one I fabbed up.

This is not something Iíd recommend for a weekend warrior. In fact, for a passenger van like this, Iíd find another roller and crush this one. I already own 2, so itís easier for me to type that. Itís a major project. I would expect 40 hours a side to do what I describe. It would end up better than new.


OK... and how do u think you would gain physical access to the air in question?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

Itís metal. Anything is possible. As I said earlier, Iíd be figuring it out as I go. But as I also said, for myself, Iíd not bother on an old passenger van. Maybe something with real value like a vintage sports car.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

If I recall, it's a rusty old beater Van up in Canada.

If it tracks well, the repair is solid and you are comfortable running it...... just drive it.

There would be way too much time and money required to make it right and when you are done...... you've got a rusty beater still. Zero return on your repair investment.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange welding behind front shock stack? [beginning to rust] Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
If I recall, it's a rusty old beater Van up in Canada.

If it tracks well, the repair is solid and you are comfortable running it...... just drive it.

There would be way too much time and money required to make it right and when you are done...... you've got a rusty beater still. Zero return on your repair investment.

Dave


It initially looked like a rusty old beater... but after some surface rust was dealt with, and closer inspection - in fact the body is in FANTASTIC condition. Dave you yourself commented on the prestine rear clean outs behind the rear jacking spots. This ain't no rusty beater, not by a LONG LONG shot --- but it DID look like that at first, I admit.

yeah, probably just drive it and keep an eye and ear on this.
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