Main Seal and Flywheel o-Ring

[robin.richard]

PyrOman was right, the gen brush thread got way off track. So I started this one.

Well, after removing the engine to replaced the generator I found a few more issues that needed attention. By the way the generator was easy to replace with the engine out. Since this is a new out of box generator my assumption is I will need the polarity matched to the battery by running it for a time with the DF to ground, D+ to poss side of battery, and battery neg to ground. Correct?

When removing the engine I found a small puddle of engine oil (not gear oil) in the bottom of the bell housing. I also noticed some oil on case behind the flywheel, but I haven't removed the clutch/plate yet. Front of clutch/plate and flywheel look dry. I suspect a leaking main seal. I have two seals, two flywheel o-rings and a instal tool. I have read the Bentley manual, read several posts on this forum and watched several videos online. It seems there are several different ways to instal the main seal. Bentley says to instal with tool making sure it's bed squarely in the case. Several forum post say to bottom out the seal into the case resulting in a small gap around edge between seal and case. Some say to insert it flush to the outside of case. Some videos also suggest removing the inner spring to shorten it thus creating a tighter seal on the flywheel. So what is the straight scoop?

Also, since the engine is out I'll be checking the end play.

Still working on the rear wheels/brakes rubbing, but can't check on that until engine is back in.

-Rich
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[busdaddy]

Don't go removing any springs, that's fake news. If your flywheel snout has a groove where the seal lip rides bottoming it out can move it to a fresh area, I start with it flush and try the flywheel on with a little grease, when you remove the flywheel you can see where the grease got pushed up to on the snout, if it's over a damaged area seat the seal down in the case a little more. Polishing the snout with fine sand paper and steel wool also helps, it has to be shiny like a mirror to seal well, and lube the inside of the seal where it rides on the flywheel too, they don't last long dry.

You are correct on the generator polarizing, it only takes a second for the magic to happen, if it does a turn or two it's ready to hook up and run.
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[Jetjockey1964]

Sorry to jump on the thread but I have a leak I’d like advice on. The case is 1964 and has been leaking engine oil. Originally I put in the main seal flush and it leaked 2-3” pool. I replaced and put in a new seal deeper than flush to the case it’s about 2mm deeper than flush and it leaks the same. Now this has the original crank but I updated the flywheel to 12v it is my understanding it takes an o ring which is installed. I think the trans shaft seal is leaking too. Everything in the trans is new rebuilt. When I put the engine together I did not tap a hole to drain the oil off the flywheel seal. So is this a case of it’s just going to leak? I just pulled it all to have a look before winter. The front of the case is dry except for the case seam from the seal down. The flywheel And teeth is dry. The clutch is dry. The bell house is coated.

Please help me! Share any ideas suggestions you like and thank you!

[busdaddy]

Welcome,
That case and flywheel looks dry to me, I think your problem is with the input shaft seal, the little bit dribbled down from the main seal looks like the aftermath of removing the flywheel from here. What does the other side of the flywheel look like?
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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[Jetjockey1964]

Both sides of the flywheel are dry.

[robin.richard]

Jetjockey1964,

Based on your photos it looks like the same thing I'm dealing with. I'll take some photos as I replaced the seal today and post them.

Busdaddy,

I noticed in the Bentley manual (M-15, page 4) it says to 'Clean oil seal recess in crankcase and coat it with a thin film of sealing compound.' In all the online videos and most of the post I noticed no one used a sealant. What do you recommend?

Getting ready to dive into this in the next hour or so. I hope I figure it out.

-Rich
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[Jetjockey1964]

I think both of my seals are leaking. I put UV dye into the crankcase and it has pooled at the bottom of the bell house. The bell house is wet right at the drive seal and a fairly even spray throughout the area. What really stumps me is that my case, flywheel, clutch etc are all dry. Which leads me to think it’s leaking at shutdown due to the pressure and the lack of oil pressure relief at the lower o’clock location.

Is it possible to tap the case to relieve the buildup of oil behind the main seal without breaking down the case?

[busdaddy]

[robin.richard]

Busdaddy,

I got the flywheel off. Noticed the o-ring was pinched a little but everything else looked okay. I obviously have a leak, likely the main seal. Clutch/plate were dry except the clutch had some white grease that seemed to spread as the clutch was spinning. I guess I'll cut down on the grease next time. Everything is apart and inspected. I will put it all back together in the morning. Third to last photo is of the flywheel polished where it meets the mainseal. Let me know if you see anything out of order.

-Rich

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[esde]

[hazetguy]

[robin.richard]

Esde and Hazetguy,

Yes, this is the way the case came. It's been fine for years until recently noticed the engine oil in the bell housing.

Yes, this was an older flywheel.

I just tried to check for end play, but with the gland nut to torque (217lbs.) There was no movement. I had a slight play before I originally took the flywheel off but now nothing. No seal this time when checking. With flywheel off I have endplay. Unfortunately I don't have a way to measure my three shims right now.

I almost feel like giving up for a day or two. Very frustrating to say the least.

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[robin.richard]

Also, here are the three shims. They are not marked with size and I don’t have calipers right now. I’ll measure at work tomorrow.

It looks like they have considerable wear. They may have been old used shims, I can’t remember.

-Rich

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[BarryL]

I wonder why you would have no end-play now having not changed anything?

[Jetjockey1964]

Can the case be tapped without breaking down the case halves where the ‘old style’ case main seals leak due to the relief hole being at 8 o clock position? Also wondering if I should bother reinstalling a new main seal?

[robin.richard]

BarryL,

That’s a good question. Once I loosen the gland nut I get end-play again.

I’m too frustrated to check it again. I’m going to give it a day and recheck.

I’m going to try without the shims and see what if any difference it makes.

-Rich
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[robin.richard]

Jetjockey1964,

My guess is you would run the risk of getting shavings inside the case if you were to drill into it. But as you can see, I can’t even get my engine sorted so I may be wrong.

-Rich
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[robin.richard]

So I finally figured out this end-play thing...I think.

It had .030 / .030 / .036 shims and measured @ between .005 - .006 in end-play. So, right on the cusp of the wear limit of .006 in. I actually had to somewhat force the .006, but it went through. I took one of the .030 out and measured again with an end-play of .017.

I ordered some new shims .036 / .034 /.032 / .030 / and a .024 just for GP and i am thinking I will need to replace two of the original shims for a .036 / .034 / .030 or a .036 / .034 / .032 to make it closer to a .004 end-play.

Am I correct Correct? Bouncing between mm and inches has got my brain swimming.

-Rich
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[BarryL]

[robin.richard]

BarryL,

So I should go .036 / .036 / .030?

I don't know why this is so hard for me to wrap my head around.

To tell you the truth I am just going to try all sort of combinations now that my shims have arrived.

-Rich
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