"EOIC" valve adjustment

[BFB]

so this was brought up in another thread and i wanted to see if someone can give a more detailed method to do it on a vw? i did google it but most was about v8's, which gave me the jist of it, but like i said, wanted more vw specific info.
thanks
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Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[jpaull]

I'm curious also. Makes since, I dont see any vw specific differences. We still use our chromo/aluminum pushrod specs, its just a method of getting to a safe and sure base circle.

"Starting with cylinder No. 1 (usually the head that is farthest forward on the block is No. 1) with the valve cover off, rotate the engine until the exhaust lifter begins to move upward. This is the point at which the exhaust valve is opening (EO), meaning the piston is through with the power stroke, and it's about to begin the exhaust stroke. At this point, the intake valve is closed and the lifter is on the base circle of the camshaft and can be adjusted. To adjust lash with hydraulic lifters, simply grab the pushrod and back off the rocker-arm adjusting nut until you feel play between the pushrod and the rocker arm. Turn the rocker arm adjusting nut while rotating the pushrod until there is no more play between the pushrod and the rocker arm, then tighten the adjusting nut one half turn. That's it, you're done. To adjust the exhaust lash, turn the engine over until the exhaust valve has completed its lift cycle and the intake valve begins to close (IC). Now, the exhaust lifter is on the base circle because the piston is finishing the intake stroke and about to begin compression. Set the lash on the exhaust valve and you're done. This needs to be done for each cylinder."

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0702-camshaft/

[txoval]

This method is simple to me, but others may disagree...

You can start at any cylinder and don’t need to worry about timing marks or where the rotor is pointed...just have to rotate the engine in its normal operating direction (clockwise).

Then watch the valves...exhaust valve opens about an 1/8”, adjust the intake valve...rotate watching the intake valve now open and close. When about 1/4” from closing adjust the exhaust valve. As you watch the valves, you’ll notice the other valve movements and can adjust them as well, but doing one cylinder at a time is okay too. It’s that simple

[raygreenwood]

[j-dub]

I used this method for the first time recently after reading about it on here.

I first set the valves as I normally would with the cylinder at TDC 1, rolled it backward to 2, 3 and 4 and set them all.

I then used a remote starter button to crank the engine over until the Exhaust is starting to open and checked the intake valve clearance. I then used the remote start button to bump the engine over till the intake is closing and adjust the exhaust valve clearance.

I found that the 15 degrees before or after is a bit hard to get exact but it was easy to get close enough. The valve spring pressure sort of pushes the engine around a bit.

With this method only one cylinder needed to be adjusted vs the TDC method and that difference was really small. I am using steel push rods adjusted for a loose zero for the record.

I don't notice any difference in valve train noise at first startup or after running for a while, but I did think it was fun.
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[jeffrey8164]

Are we reinventing the wheel here??
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[FreeBug]

I've never liked it on VWs, often the clearance changes. At least for me.

[oprn]

I have done it both ways and can’t really see a difference.

[raygreenwood]

[Zundfolge1432]

People with time on their hands will devise busy work and alternate methods. If you like it and it works all good.

[Alstrup]

[Ohio Tom]

[mark tucker]

the engine does not know if it is a vw or v8. Ive seen many vw owners as well as v8 owners that havent a clue about anything related to their cars or engines at all but think they do.and yes cant tell when it has one or more dead holes and drives them like that. opening the ex 1/8" will do very little to offset the other banks pressure.but it may put you in the right aera of the lobe for a better adjustment. but some people dont care if they are adjusted or not as long as they think they are. eieio

[Ohio Tom]

I have been watching this post for a while. Laying low.
Only adding tiny bits here and there..


I must speak now:

I don't really follow the logic of this alternate "EOIC" method for adjusting valves.
It seems confusing and overly complicated to me.
mind you, I set ALOT of valves.

I try to understand the logic given, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Who cares what the lash on the intake is doing while the exh is opening. The cylinder pressure is low at that point.

The traditional way of setting valves is to park the motor at TDC (firing).
From what I know of a 4 stroke engine, this is the point in cycle where having the correct lash matters the most.
At TDC, cylinder pressure is highest as the spark has already fired and the burn is starting to build pressure in the chamber for the power stroke.
Having both valves close (with correct lash) at that moment is most important. After the power stroke is over, then the lash can do whatever and it won't have an impact on performance.




Cam duration and ramp design can play havoc in any alternate method of valve adjustment.
The FK-87 cam comes to mind. It has such as long soft ramp from .050" to .000", it seems to go on forever before closing all the way. EOIC would get you in trouble real fast with that cam.

One thing you can always say for sure, is that at TDC firing, both valve should be shut.. No confusion there..

[raygreenwood]

[FreeBug]

And how much of is cam flex, with heavy springs?

[mark tucker]

if any way of adjusting the valves confuzes you you probably arnt getting them right and should take the car to somebody that isant confuzed by possiably the smiplest car ever produced. also just because you cant "see" it or it isant "logickel" to you dont mean you understand any of it.and thats ok. go look at the akerman angle and see if you can see it..or how to set it?or why it is. why is a counter weighted crank beter than a non counter weighted when both are balanced? why does the IR system work better than a single? why do vw people think building a vw is not the same as anything else?oh never mind.I think I already know.

[halfassleatherworks]

[bugguy1967]

Have a friend in my Whatsapp group that's running a FK87 or 89. He tried the method that I explained to him, then went back and checked using the traditional method. All valves were .004" tighter.
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[Alstrup]

Yes.
As I said, it is cam specific.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993