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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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depps74
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Joined: January 16, 2020
Posts: 157
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 Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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It did go away after about 2 minutes. I checked a couple other things. Oil is a good no milkshake on the dipstick or pudding on the oil cap. On a cold start with the coolant cap off and coolant topped off to tip top of pressure tank I turned on, about 1/5 or so of the fluid dropped. I then revved the engine. There was not a steady stream of bubbles but a few came out. I shut off engine and put cap back on. I marked where the coolant was with a black pen, went for a 10 min drive and checked coolant. The level of coolant in the tank went up past my hashmark. There was also the normal dripping I have been trying to trouble shoot here. I can trace a trail from the oil cooler screw head up that side but loose track of trail cause I just can't see past the exhaust pipes and other water pump tubes etc.....
I am going to get some ramps tomorrow back it onto those and see if I can't get a clearer picture of where that leak is coming from. I really hope its the water pump and not a blown gasket. I am preparing mentally to take this on but I very nervous based on past fixes I've undertaken of screwing it up even worse. I've been studying guides and videos on how to do this. IT seems the Allen screws and the pulley nuts are hardest parts. |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16501
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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| depps74 wrote: |
| It did go away after about 2 minutes. |
That would be normal for most any cold start at this time of year, especially if you are just letting the engine idle so the exhaust doesn't warm up quickly. |
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22641
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:12 am Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| depps74 wrote: |
| It did go away after about 2 minutes. |
That would be normal for most any cold start at this time of year, especially if you are just letting the engine idle so the exhaust doesn't warm up quickly. |
Especially the way out temperature gas swung from 15 to 60F over the fast few days. All the moisture is condensing in places on cold engines as the water content of the air changes drastically.
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depps74
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Joined: January 16, 2020
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:51 am Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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UPDATE: I can definitely confirm the leak is coming from the same place. I've taken the van for many short ten to fifteen minute trips. The leak puddle is in the same place as the pressure test. I just can't see its source, just the trail down to the oil cooler screw. (or so I think its the being flathead head near the fins of the engine bottom) After studying the Bentley I now know where to look. Also of note lately: The starts are a little funny. Always a little hesitation and a stutter step vroooom, and the battery light stays on sometimes until I put it into drive. Just making notes here for the next breakdown lol. Gonna first find all the hoses I can reach and tighten today.
Many thanks for the help on this thread. It's a journey for sure. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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You need to determine if the coolant is leaking from the oil cooler hoses or somewhere above there. Maybe use your finger to create a dam along the path the fluid might be flowing.
Look carefully along the gasket between the heads and the block as that is where the water jacket gasket resides. The leak may be on top of the engine and run off the back or it could be in the rear or well hidden underneath by the sled tin.
For what its worth, the small oil cooler hoses on my '91 started leaking at around 50k miles because they had gotten crisped by the exhaust heat. After fighting to replace them I wrapped them in aluminium foil to keep the radiant heat from the exhaust at bay. Never changed them again over the life of the WBXer and they disappear when the Subaru swap was done at around 240K. |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
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Location: Syracuse, NY
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depps74
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Joined: January 16, 2020
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
You need to determine if the coolant is leaking from the oil cooler hoses or somewhere above there. Maybe use your finger to create a dam along the path the fluid might be flowing.
Look carefully along the gasket between the heads and the block as that is where the water jacket gasket resides. The leak may be on top of the engine and run off the back or it could be in the rear or well hidden underneath by the sled tin.
For what its worth, the small oil cooler hoses on my '91 started leaking at around 50k miles because they had gotten crisped by the exhaust heat. After fighting to replace them I wrapped them in aluminium foil to keep the radiant heat from the exhaust at bay. Never changed them again over the life of the WBXer and they disappear when the Subaru swap was done at around 240K. |
In this pic the area behind the pulley mount that connects to the cooling jacket there is a puddle of green that I can barely see. Thats the best I have gotten so far. My guess is that the pump or that o ring is leaking. However it would be nice to know for sure. Another weird thing happening is the cold starts. It's either a hesitation start or just will chug and without giving it some gas it just wont start. Before I go pulling the water pump are these two signs of a bad gasket or bad compression? |
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depps74
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Joined: January 16, 2020
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
You need to determine if the coolant is leaking from the oil cooler hoses or somewhere above there. Maybe use your finger to create a dam along the path the fluid might be flowing.
Look carefully along the gasket between the heads and the block as that is where the water jacket gasket resides. The leak may be on top of the engine and run off the back or it could be in the rear or well hidden underneath by the sled tin.
For what its worth, the small oil cooler hoses on my '91 started leaking at around 50k miles because they had gotten crisped by the exhaust heat. After fighting to replace them I wrapped them in aluminium foil to keep the radiant heat from the exhaust at bay. Never changed them again over the life of the WBXer and they disappear when the Subaru swap was done at around 240K. |
Also just wondering if this pump has anything to do with the timing belt? And if so would a bad water pump explain hesitant starts on a cold engine? |
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9798
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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| depps74 wrote: |
| ...Also just wondering if this pump has anything to do with the timing belt? And if so would a bad water pump explain hesitant starts on a cold engine? |
No timing belt.
The hesitant start may be a tired starter - some can have high enough resistance that the engine doesn't fire reliably until you release the key from the start position. Could be other things too. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22641
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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| depps74 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
You need to determine if the coolant is leaking from the oil cooler hoses or somewhere above there. Maybe use your finger to create a dam along the path the fluid might be flowing.
Look carefully along the gasket between the heads and the block as that is where the water jacket gasket resides. The leak may be on top of the engine and run off the back or it could be in the rear or well hidden underneath by the sled tin.
For what its worth, the small oil cooler hoses on my '91 started leaking at around 50k miles because they had gotten crisped by the exhaust heat. After fighting to replace them I wrapped them in aluminium foil to keep the radiant heat from the exhaust at bay. Never changed them again over the life of the WBXer and they disappear when the Subaru swap was done at around 240K. |
Also just wondering if this pump has anything to do with the timing belt? And if so would a bad water pump explain hesitant starts on a cold engine? |
No.
No.
I’m not that familiar with this engine but suggest , after pulling the belt, you could loosen the pulley bolts and remove the water pump pulley. That might give you a better view.
It might be easier to first crack the pulley bolts with the belt on and tight
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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depps74
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Joined: January 16, 2020
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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UPDATE: I pressurized the system with the bike pump. Tightened all suspect and accessible clamps. No leaks!! Took it for a 20 min drive and got back checked under engine and leak was back.  So I ordered a Boroscope as the leak is impossible to spot from every angle I can see without cutting away parts. Took the belt of the pump and wiggled the pulley. NO play solid.
Overnight the leak yielded a 1/4 cup of coolant. The pressure tank dropped from the tippy top of cap to right at the stem of the cap. so less than 1/4 cup. Anyhow I am resolved to change the pump as the part came in today. I can barely see a puddle right behind the pulley and above and behind the weep hole on the molded ledge section above it. I suspect that is the place. I hope that is the place so I can put this now 2 month saga to an end for at least ahile and build some confidence. I am really really nervous to do this pump swap on my own. The AC compressor is right in the way, and from what I understand the Allen nuts can be frozen not to mention every fix I've done has resulted in making things worse. Just wondering what the consensus is on this. Should I try it? I know absolutely very little. I have a great mentor. But without someone right there to point and show me I am very reluctant. Is it fairly doable? In my head and via videos and instructions it looks fairly straight forward. But thats what I thought last fix...... I found a mechanic to do it for $450. The money is short, but I really just more want to learn this stuff once and for all and build some fix it confidence. IF there is anyone in Hudson Valley area that could hold my hand, I'll buy you lunch and dinner and next days breakfast. |
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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| depps74 wrote: |
UPDATE: I pressurized the system with the bike pump. Tightened all suspect and accessible clamps. No leaks!! Took it for a 20 min drive and got back checked under engine and leak was back. So I ordered a Boroscope as the leak is impossible to spot from every angle I can see without cutting away parts. Took the belt of the pump and wiggled the pulley. NO play solid.
Overnight the leak yielded a 1/4 cup of coolant. The pressure tank dropped from the tippy top of cap to right at the stem of the cap. so less than 1/4 cup. Anyhow I am resolved to change the pump as the part came in today. I can barely see a puddle right behind the pulley and above and behind the weep hole on the molded ledge section above it. I suspect that is the place. I hope that is the place so I can put this now 2 month saga to an end for at least ahile and build some confidence. I am really really nervous to do this pump swap on my own. The AC compressor is right in the way, and from what I understand the Allen nuts can be frozen not to mention every fix I've done has resulted in making things worse. Just wondering what the consensus is on this. Should I try it? I know absolutely very little. I have a great mentor. But without someone right there to point and show me I am very reluctant. Is it fairly doable? |
Clean area you suspect is leaking then watch for leak. Get in there with a tooth brush. WD40 with attached nozzle works well; easier to aim it to where you want it and it kind of pressure washes area.
A smaller mechanics mirror (similar to dentist mirror) should help you see where leak originates. It's a useful tool to have regardless.
It's impossible to know your skill level but this might help you decide:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=576721
Neil.
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depps74
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Joined: January 16, 2020
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:59 am Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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UPDATE: I've now driven about 4k miles since my stupid rookie mistake that started this epic post. Early on this post one person said lets see what happens after a few thousand miles. Well might have a gasket issue... So here's what's going on.... I've had to replace the water pump and I do have a transmission leak ( I think) that is pooling on the top of my left side of the engine (luckily covered under a warranty). The pooling is right under the ATF dipstick. However now I got another problem. The overflow tank was empty. I recently took several long drives about 180 miles highway and up some steep hills. Anyhow I been checking all my fluids throughout and on my recent check noticed this.
After reading several posts on overflow tanks going dry (especially on long trips) some have suggested that a dry overflow tank could be a sign of a gasket seal. This would make sense right? I overheated, kept driving, causing immense pressure and now a gasket is starting to go? Would that explain the pool of transmission oil on the top of engine too?
Anyhow its driving fine, but I fear trouble is around the corner. The mechanic recommended hose replacements. I think maybe start wit the blue cap on the expansion tank, drive and see how that does? When water pump was replaced and coolant is flushed I have read that you need to keep adding coolant as the levels will take a while to level out? Maybe that?
If I keep adding coolant to the overflow tank and Aside from a very small leak (not enough to register on my dipsticks after 1200 miles of driving) Is it foolish to keep driving like this? |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:25 am Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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First off, let's identify the "over flow tank".
This is the one behind the license plate door?
Yes, keep it filled, there are "Min / Max" marks on it. Keep the level betweem those marks.
Yes, after the cooling system has been opened and bled, it does have an appetite for additional coolant, but this appetite isn't long term and on going.
What level of coolant is in the pressure tank under the engine lid?
It is absolutely critical that this tank stays full.
Mechanic wants to replace some hoses?
Why?
Has he identified bad or leaking ones?
Your use of coolant isn't the cause of your ATF puddle by the dipstick.
Unless your ATF is now looking like a strawberry milkshake!
Don't let your transmission rebuilder lead you along until the warranty expires.
There is a reason the transmission is pushing out ATF and he needs to find out why and fix it NOW!
Make sure your oil levels (engine and transmission) are good, check weekly if not daily........
If your coolant level sensor works ......... and you watch your dash for signs of abnormal behavior....... and stop when they appear....... motor along!
Dave
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djkeev
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17114
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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Bummer, but without the skills, experience, tools, and time, or a trusted mechanic and bottomless probably for the best in this case.
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: Re: My first breakdown!!! White steam coming out the left side vent. |
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Hopefully it went to someone who will read the owner's manual, measure the ATF fluid level correctly, and pull over when the engine is catastrophically overheating.  |
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