new transmission?

[jimf909]

During my rebuild two years ago...and then the next one a year ago (long story) I had the trans case tapped for a temp sender. I believe it's the same you posted but with a black face. Yes, it's very nice that it dims with the headlights, otherwise it'd be too darn bright at night. The zero in the LED readout was not picked up by the digital camera.

By the way, here's a drain plug at 1,000 miles on a good rebuild...

And here's the magnet at 500 miles after a bad rebuild (that spike at 10:00 is a shard off of a gear). This trans went 10K miles before being pulled for dead...

It sounds like your trans is in good hands.
_________________
- Jim

[MarkWard]

1/8” pipe is a good size for this project. I’ve seen larger sensors that require bigger holes not ideal. 260f is plenty high. Your expanding a lot at 200f.
_________________
☮️

[erste]

I was going to suggest looking at Speedhut for a temp gauge, but the 60-260F gauge (GR-TRNS-02) doesn't seem to be available anymore. They do sell a digital gauge and the 140-300F version, but that's not really what you want.

I was really impressed with the gauge I ordered and they're customizable. Wish I'd gone with it from the start instead of the VDO (range is too broad - same issue I'd have with the speedhut 140-300 linked above).

Just to say that their temp sender is also 1/8"-27 NPT

Good news about your transaxle! Bummer about the core though. Now might also be a good time to add any fill/return ports for a cooling system. Maybe also the diff/trans mounts with something from powerflex? I'm not familiar with syncros and it looks like you need 5 kits to do the job, but just a thought.

[kguarnotta]

do I need to worry about the temp gauge sticking into the transmission case and interfering with anything?

I had asked the builder to tap where the Serial Number is...
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper

[Sodo]

kguarnotta, it's wide open there.
From the serial number surface there's at least 1.5 inches clearance.

====== warning: Vanagon information overload ==========

Regarding choices of temperature guages.....

If your transaxle is properly built and driven with respect to its antiquity,
----> of still serviceable used parts (this is dwindling!!)
----> by a skilled builder
----> it will run cool

And the guage will likely confirm where you are - in that realm.

Keep in mind:
Poor builds and worn-out tranaxles run hotter.
And hotter yet when driven fast, heavy, and over-engined.
Metal in the lubricant generates a little more heat, but mainly increases the surface fatigue as the balls and gearfaces mash on the particles.

Eventually rolling them out flat, but while clunking over the fresh ones it is fatiguing your valuable surfaces.
Which will eventually chip potholes like an old highway under overweight trucks.
Making more trash.

LOTS of metal in the lubricant would add MORE heat, so its wise to pay attention to your lubricant condition.
6.17 R&P runs hot because it has 40% sliding, and 5.43 runs hotter than 4.86.
And big tires add heat too.

A big engine WILL increase the rate of metal accumulating in your lubricant.
No ifs, ands, or buts - this is a simple truth of the mechanical limits due to the small size of the 90HP gears, shafts, bearings.
With a big engine comes responsibility to increase the maintenance, and off-weight the gas pedal.
Or use up your transaxle faster.
Wise to remove the contamination as early and often as you can tolerate.
What's $20 of clean gear oil between friends ( You and your Vanagon? )

You HAVE 160 HP but you should try to drive with 90 HP MOST of the time.

==== The temp range of Transmission gauges.====

Agreed its "nice" to have a gauge labeled "TRANSMISSION TEMP"

But.....

A vanagon transaxle has an absolute upper limit of 180°F.

-The yellow zone is 160-170°F
-Red zone is 170-180°F
-Damage is occurring at 180°F.

The Mainshaft bearing is loose in its bore, and the shafts will shove apart starting at 180°F.
There is damage at some level, but with shafts shoved apart, the gears are in "sliding contact" rather than "rolling contact".

Heat is generated.
Wear is accelerated.
Perhaps wearing the mainshaft bearing bore looser
The mainshaft bearing is less able to shed its heat to the housing once the 'thermal/press fit is 'loose' and its outer race gets hotter.

There are modifications that the better builders add - to increase the hold-down force on the mainshaft bearing.
Heat transfer is one of the benefits of this hold-down, but it's not the best heat transfer route. And some brands of hold-downs are 'un-even' around the bearing race.
The OEM bearing race-to-bore (tight) is the best route to transfer bearing heat to the housing and out to the surface air.
And keep in mind that if 180°F is the oil temperature, it's an AVERAGE.
The bearings and gears where the heat is being generated are HOTTER.

I understand ^^that's^^ mostly mumbo-jumbo to most readers
- perhaps not to the Vanagon transaxle deep-divers....
If I had a Youtube channel, holding these components and pointing and talking, you'd understand it quickly. (or by a campfire 👍🏽)

Reader should log that the Vanagon transaxle has a cascade of (additive) problems that get detrimental around 180°F.
In the spirit of accessibility I'll describe it in layman's terms:
"180°F sucks".

Its not an oil brand problem.
180°F is NO PROBLEM for Dino gear oil.
You can’t realize any of the 240F++ benefits of Synthetic oil in a Vanagon trans ‘cuz you should never run it past 180F anyway.
Some people like the "first five minutes" shifting of Synthetic.
(Sodo can wait....during warmup he's driving slow like an old fart.)
And some people prefer the winter shifting performance of Synthetic.

I've chosen 160° as my "Alarm bell" max tolerable temperature for the simple reason that it's 20° away from 180°.
But I have an electronically cooling system on my trans that keeps it at 142°F, way below my alarm bell temp.
I chose 142° to cause the filtration to happen more often.
And because an oil engineer told me 150°F could be an "optimum gearbox oil temp".
I started at 150°F But my system almost never ran and I wanted more frequent filtration so went down to 142°F. OK that's that....

IMHO you want a temp guage thats accurate in the range of 160°F.
Other vehicle transmissions can tolerate much higher temperatures therefore most transmission gauges show a much wider range like 300F.

This is in the realm of a coolant temperature gauge (or below).

I don't care in the slightest what the temp is --->beyond 180°F,
'cuz at that temp I'm checkin' my shorts!

If some 'driving style' causes an increase from 155° to 160°, you want to see it, know it, learn how to change it.
.....if you're that kind of Vanagon caretaker....
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[AndyBees]

Wow!

So, it is very likely I've pushed the DK Tranny with the .77 4th in my Vanagon beyond the limit of 180*F while pulling a PopUp Camper with tall tires and with four adults on board!

My tranny has well over 80k miles on it. Soon it will be removed and replaced for a couple of reasons. The pinion has a worn spot on one tooth and I'm building another tranny with a 4.13 R&P, upgraded 4th, 3/4th hub assembly, bearings, spider gears, etc.

I do plan to install a "lubrication & cooling" system and temp monitoring!

Subscribed ....
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[erste]

[AndyBees]

[Sodo]

[AndyBees]

I feel like I'm high-jacking this Thread.

I may start a Thread on my transmission build later...

Anyway, I'm ready to put it together. But, I've been looking at the various possibilities to address internal oiling, cooling, etc., which has also involved a lot of reading here in the Samba.

So, I've not stumbled onto anything about providing extra oiling to the Reverse Idler Bearing Assembly. Keep in mind, although it very seldom sees much of a load, it is spinning just as fast as the Main Shaft Bearing.

Below, is a pic of what I've done thus far. The hole in the transmission case is on about a 45 degree angle as well as angled toward the diff end of the trans. The angles allowed the hole to be placed almost dead center between the two bearings inside the assembly. The small First Gear is always rotating to the left (counter clockwise from this view) which will sling oil into the hole. And, I may cut a channeling groove to increase the amount.

_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[Sodo]

[AndyBees]

[kguarnotta]

Hey jimf909 - did you connect the gauge to your headlight switch?

I just got my gauge - and am expecting transmission next week. I thought I might run as much wire as I can while waiting...any tips? How is your gauge sitting on the dash? did you just tape it in place?

My plan - once transmisison is in - after ~1000 miles, I'll drain and refill tranny fluid. I'll take pics of drain plug and post here.
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper

[Sodo]

[kguarnotta]

Good point - I'll change it quicker...

I did not go for the REM polishing....

Without getting into super in depth discussion on transmission fluid madness...I am of the mind that frequent changes are better than getting the "best" fluid. Hopefully I'm going to get good at this.

I see the official spec is GL-4. I also see lots of posts, backed up by research saying GL-5 is ok. Based on what I've read - GL-5 would be fine...but that is for regular vanagon transmission. Does it matter that I'm lubricating a syncro transmission?

I'm thinking I'll just buy a bunch of it - is this stuff ok - "Valvoline High Performance SAE 80W-90 Gear Oil" - https://tinyurl.com/y2tfutm5 - I imagine I'll be changing it a lot at the beginning...I think while I've got it up on the lift at the mechanic - I should drain and fill the front and rear differentials?

I see the transmission has a capacity of 3.2 qt, but how much do the front and rear hold?

I have read on Westfalia.org that the transmission takes 3.2 qt, but read on syncro.org that the transmission refill takes 4.2 quarts, and on Vanagon.org that I need 5 quarts.

Syncro.org says front diff takes 1.6 qts.

I guess I'm looking for another point of reference...how much?
And do they take the same oil?

thanks...
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper

[Sodo]

$99 for 5 gallons of Valvoline, can;t complain.

I'd change the front too, just to know it's clean.
And it only costs like $7.
I'd change the front diff maybe every other rear change.
There's no gnashing of gears in the front, just a hypoid.

Same oil front & rear.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[kguarnotta]

Actually - if I'm reading it correctly - it is 12 gallons for $90 of 80w/90 oil.

Seems like a great price - especially if I'm going to be be flushing it through frequently.
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper

[danfromsyr]

those are Quarts
divide by 4.
it's 3gallons for $90

edit unless this is what you were talking about
5gal pail for $99
https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-80W-90-High-Performance-Gear/dp/B000CQ2668

[kguarnotta]

Maybe it is a typo - but I selected the 1 Ga size (which I think means 1 gallon?) Case of 12.
_________________
-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper

[danfromsyr]

not to get pedantic but caveat emptor.
when you click [1Gal] the ad states