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Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes
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andk5591 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Have a 75 Super vert that has been converted to carb. I already have the engine together and a set of 74 down heater boxes on it. Would like to know if there is a stockish muffler that will exit in the same place as the stock FI muffler.

I understand that the FI exhaust/heater is completely different, so that is not an option unless I change out the heater boxes and everything else.

Worse case I guess I could use a Monza type since they run under the apron. or something like the Empi GT single tip. But I know nothing about if its at least as good as a stock muffler (bone stock 1600) https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D3487

Any ideas? And if you know if a link, let me know. I did do a search.
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unitedracing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Vintage speed makes one...actually I think they have a couple different sound ratings available. I've been thinking about one for my '75 but the factory exhaust is surprisingly good for my displacement
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

The empi single tip will work and look good on the 75-79 cars with FI aprons. I had one on my car, when they first came out with them. A 4 into 1 header is better.
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unitedracing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

APPLEGREENVW wrote:
The empi single tip will work and look good on the 75-79 cars with FI aprons. I had one on my car, when they first came out with them. A 4 into 1 header is better.
i didn't know they made one. Does it exit the apron in the factory location like the Vintage Speed?
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APPLEGREENVW
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

unitedracing wrote:
APPLEGREENVW wrote:
The empi single tip will work and look good on the 75-79 cars with FI aprons. I had one on my car, when they first came out with them. A 4 into 1 header is better.
i didn't know they made one. Does it exit the apron in the factory location like the Vintage Speed?

Its not perfect like oem muffler, but good enough.

The vintage speed and the empi muffler will not work right with the stock carburetors, only duals. I found a photo with the empi single tip muffler on my bug.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D3487
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Rome
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Hi, Andy. I also installed the same Empi single-tip muffler like Applegreen had. Ordered it thru The VW Store near Hazleton, PA. I chose this when I converted my dual-Kadron 1600 to single Solex in stock configuration last year and also wanted a reasonably stock appearing muffler. This is on my '77 Beetle on which the PO had replaced the original bumped-out FI rear apron with a '74 style but filled in the exhaust cutouts. The Empi exhaust tip goes beneath the apron bottom edge. Apple's would be the most comparable photo to your situation.

I removed the black paint using paint stripper, wiped it clean with mineral spirits, and painted it a dull grey high-temp manifold spray paint from POR-15. I can't remember if the preheat pipe was already drilled; but if not, I did and used the 2 diamond-shaped gaskets whereby one had the smaller ID hole than the other to create uneven pressure to encourage exhaust flow thru the preheat pipe.

Caution: My engine uses the stock fresh air hoses for carb-style heater boxes. I used full-length air hoses that go from the shroud through the rear breastplate, and into the top of the HB. The muffler's left pipe from the #4 exhaust port is poorly designed so that it is right in the path of the left fresh air hose. I first squished the aluminum-based air hose to make an oval shape and get it past the narrow area next to the pipe, but it just would not work. The available space was too tight for the hose. What I did was to relocate the hole for the air hose about 1/2" rearward in the breastplate. I cut a crescent shape with tin snips, then used a slightly larger piece of sheetmetal to close up the open crescent that was now at the front side of the fresh air hose. Riveted that patch to the breastplate and painted it all semi-gloss black. Since the air hose blocks the view of the patched piece, you would not know it's there. That 1/2" gave me enough room to route the fresh air hose past the muffler pipe.

Muffler works fine and has a good sound, though I only have about 350 miles on it since the installation.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Rome, thanks for the info....and the "duh" moment for me about relocating the fresh air hose holes. I have filled holes in the rear tin and honestly never thought about moving one a bit. I have been lucky so far since we use the Tri-Mill hot dog quite a bit and I can finesse the hoses to clear and not be too obstructed, BUT have not use the single time exhaust before. Great info. Thanks!

And yeah - the paint they put on the Empi is mostly to prevent rust before installation. I take that off as well and use Hi-temp rattle can.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Here's the vintage speed system:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


https://store.vintagespeed.com.tw/PRE-1979-INJECTI...p132825181

Requires the use of non FI beetle heater boxes, or J-Tubes if you don't want heat.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Allthough the Vintage speed is really nice piece, I don't think this customer will need it. Totally stock 1600... But thanks!
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...
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unitedracing
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

andk5591 wrote:
Allthough the Vintage speed is really nice piece, I don't think this customer will need it. Totally stock 1600... But thanks!
If that's the case then why not just stick with the stock exhaust? They are freer flowing than you may think. They actually have less back pressure with that system then with the twin peashooter exhaust believe it or not.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

unitedracing wrote:
andk5591 wrote:
Allthough the Vintage speed is really nice piece, I don't think this customer will need it. Totally stock 1600... But thanks!
If that's the case then why not just stick with the stock exhaust? They are freer flowing than you may think. They actually have less back pressure with that system then with the twin peashooter exhaust believe it or not.


The issue is the stock FI exhaust needs all those goofy and expensive heat exchangers, etc. I already have the engine done with standard exchangers.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...
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Rome
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Andy, I just added some photos to my gallery pertaining to the EMPI single-tip muffler on my '77 Beetle's 1600 engine. Here you can see how the muffler's #4 pipe significantly reduces the available space for the fresh air hose (arrow) and the late carbed stock breast plate hole. Type 2 stock foam engine compartment seal pressed into the engine compartment seal gap due to the '77's original rubber seal retention channel being partially rusted away. Small adapter plate at upper left to close off the open space created by the mismatch of the wider fuel injection cylinder tins and the narrower carbed engine breast plate .
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

View from underneath, with the compressed/reshaped/ultimately crushed fresh air hose circled.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Comparison of another original breast plate (on right; heat riser pipe holes riveted closed for use with dual carbs), and a third one that I modified with the relocated left hole to provide more space for the fresh air hose:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here's the muffler during stripping off the original black "shipping" paint, and after painting with POR-15 high-temp cast iron grey manifold spray paint.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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andk5591 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

Thanks Rome. Very helpful. How has the POR paint held up on the muffler? Looks great.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...
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Rome
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Need stock exit muffler for 75 Super using earlier heater boxes Reply with quote

and, I took a look at the muffler this weekend. Unfortunately the high heat spray paint has mostly burned off. I probably did not apply it optimally, though I did clean it and followed the directions. A professionally-applied high heat ceramic, etc. coating would've been best. I've had better and longer-lasting results with the brush-on POR-15 high-temp grey manifold paint on the single quiet muffler on my Ghia.
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