2054 Build for the Fastback

[VWporscheGT3]

700 a set... yeah , vw enthusiast typically are cheapskates, myself included. type 3 guys seem to be even worse.
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Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[VWporscheGT3]

So...... Just got back from a weekend down in So-cal with family and my buddy Elliott. came back home with quite a bit. for the engine though i came home with a 76mm CB crank and a freshly ground flywheel. so Officially the engine will be a 2110cc. This allows me to use my 45 DRLA's a little more effectively.

going with a eagle (CB) cam 2239, ADV. duration 276, overall lift with 1.1:1 rockers .417" total lift at valve. 31mm bigfoot lifters ooooor,
the 2242... please someone give a little advice

aiming for 9:1 but if im in the high 8's... i'll be happy

My co-worker will be porting the heads i have better than I could have and those heads have 40 x 35.5 valves .... if these heads dont end up holding up I will save up for panchitos or better. just trying to use what I have, I understand they are likely less than ideal.

Pistons and barrels are AA. I am going to send my pistons down to the production plant of the company I work for and have the skirts coated with line to line skirt coating up to 80% of clearance. why? well Ill tell you why .... Line 2 line helps not only with dry startups but allows each piston to find its best fit in its bore. since it is an abradable coating what happens is when some of the coating is worn away it opens up micropores and these become tiny little oil reservoirs. so now the pistons are better lubricated, supported on the skirt , and find their happiest running condition... I could go into depth about it on the stribeck curve , but i feel i'll make a mess of it. leave it to the engineers.

the biggest issue i think i may have is the exhaust. I have a standard header with dual quiet packs. looking around , i absolutely hate the options out there for performance type 3 exhaust ... and ... because of my pocketbook.. I dont think spending $1500 on a super duper exhaust is in the cards. let me know if anyone has any suggestions regarding exhaust that wont put me in bankruptcy.

and questions, comments, concerns , etc are welcome.
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[nogoodwithusernames]

[W1K1]

I'm using a pair of 45 DRLA on my 1968cc 74x92, and the wife has been using a pair on her 2110cc 82 x 90.5 for several years. I do have the berg 30/34 grooved venturies to help things out on mine.

CB doesn't post much info on their cams, I'm still running my web 163 from my 1904cc build.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[Clatter]

40 x 35.5 in a heavy car with 2110 might be even better than 42 x 37 depending on how you want it to run.
Unless you're building a high-RPM screamer it might even be best.

FWIW a 40mm intake valve typically wants a 36mm vent vs. 38 for a 42.


A really good friend, and the best welder i know, lives outside
Yerington and works cheap.
Maybe you could get some heater boxes cut up, some tubing/bends bought, and bring your motor over to him and have an exhaust made?
PM me if you're interested..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Wait... You bought a 76 crank?
I read that wrong..

You actually bought the cam?
You're supposed to pick the cam last.

I'm confused..
What parts do you have right now?
Put up a list.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[VWporscheGT3]

[Clatter]

OK.. I'm catching up..

How much work do you want to be putting into the heads and manifolds?
Horsepower is in the heads.
Are you going whole hog and having them flowed and all?
The manifolds you plan on running could benefit from work, as could heads.
Your heads are Auto Linea GO3s?
What condition?
With use, those are known to be a bit weak with holding seats and guides.
Not end of the world weak.. The CB 044s were similar, and are the most popular in the world.
You might consider their condition if you plan on putting work into them.
Make sure the guides are tight especially.
Perhaps you could re-guide them the next size over as you have them out of the way for porting work?
There is a large variation in the level you might build up a set of heads and manifolds, and the results could make a difference in the cam you would pick.
You certainly have the carbs to feed any level on this..

That also leads to the exhaust.
For good medium range torque, go with 1 1/2.
If you want it to snarl a bit more, go 1 5/8.
(Or if you want more room to grow one day?)

There's also the 'dual spring' question.
Since dual springs are required for bigger cams, that might limit your decision.
I went with the beehives on my 2056, and the 86B was the max lift they would support with my 1.3 rocker ratio.
Beehives will take lift just over .500..
Many will decide to use a cam with single springs because they run cooler, last longer, put less trash in the oil and take less horsepower to run.
But then, no proper built motor runs some sissy single springs..

CR and cams go hand-in-hand; another example of 'pick what you want to do'.

How about flywheel weight?

Do you want your wife to be able to easily drive it?
How reliable do you want it to be?
OK to be pulling the heads and checking the guides now and again?
Premium fuel?

In the end, these motors start wanting compromises when built to a certain level.

A 2110 with Dell 45s could be a solid daily with gobs of torque,
Or it could be a cantankerous beast with an attitude.

What kind of animal do you want to build?
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[VWporscheGT3]

Steve thank you,

definately not trying to build a cantankerous beast lol. just more good mid range to 5500-6000 power.

the wife isnt interested in driving Donald , but I want her to be able to... she has gotten pretty used to the quirks that all our vehicle have (except her brand new Grand Cherokee)

for me reliability will be pretty high on the list i want to be able to drive to santa cruz or down to so-cal reliably, im not above dropping the engine and checking the heads out every winter if need be (or sooner should something seem fishy). if i have to make concessions to gain that I am perfectly fine with that.

bought these heads in 2003 the heads have G01 cast in, these and the mani's will need a good amount of port work as the valves are just large valves and as cast ports.. when they were running on the 1914 they did ok, these heads though only have about 10 hours if even that , I tore the engine apart originally to swap out the cam...and then it never went back together. the springs are high rev singles, which is kinda why im leaning a little light on the cam. I want to make sure im not too abusive on the valve train.

Pulling a hill in 4th...that is something i need around here.. coming out of a corner charging harder, broader more fun power range, yes.....

now im sure , concession time
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Clatter]

Well, with those goals in mind, you could put together a pretty nice motor on the cheap.


The reason I'm tending towards going for more,
It's that you:

1. Say you want to build a '2276 with all the frills' one day.
For all intents and purposes, you could build something really close to that here.
166ccs isn't really a lot.

2. Are going to have to be fabbing up a big exhaust anyways.

3. Have big carbs already.


Such is the conundrum with these motors... There are just way too many options!

How realistic is your 'some day' motor?
Do you already have your eyes on it?
Would you be OK robbing parts from this motor for it,
Or do you want to keep them separate?
I always try to build entire motors clear to the tins and ignition if possible.
While that might be kind of wasteful in some regards,
it reduces down-time during the swap, and makes them more sell-able.
Maybe you would want to swap to your next motor at the long-block stage?
Since you're likely using the carbs for it anyways, right?

Maybe go ahead and commit to making the exhaust in 1 5/8.
That would work for your next motor if needed.
it would rob a little low-end driveability, and make the thing a tad soggy,
but it is for sure likely to be the biggest/hardest part of the build.
! have 1 5/8 on my 1914 and don't mind a bit, but it's in a beetle.
it would for sure help it run cool.
This will be a big undertaking if done right,
And would sure suck to have to do over one day if you move up.
I think any compromises in low end would be worth it.
If you don't ever plan on your next motor, or will build another exhaust, go 1 1/2"..

Any real porting job will need the valve guides taken out of the way.
GO1 factory guides suck. They come loose. BTDT.
Do you know if they were replaced when the valves and seats were done?
You'll know when you go to drive them out.
Pay real close attention to make sure the guides are replaced with quality parts and aren't going to move around.
The ports, especially the exhaust on those heads is cast way too big for the stock 32 exhaust valve.
When doing the porting, concentrate on the bowl area under the seat,
but don't be in too big a hurry to enlarge those exhaust ports, even if you're going 1 5/8 on the exhaust.
Intakes could use some more opening up/straightening, especially with the hard bends made in those short manifolds.
Time spent making an even taper from the carb to the intake valve seat would certainly be time very well spent no matter the rest of the combo.
I like to make little go/no go measurement sticks with marks on the shank to measure each hole when porting manifolds.
Make sure the taper is even, and make sure all four are the same.
You can also cc them as well.
Good headwork has no downside other than the time/cost.
Three or four days clutching a die-grinder with a long-shank burr will be worth it.. Hey. actually fun to some of us.
With those carbs and manifolds and heads, I'd put the effort in one way or another.

You got enough parts to do a mock-up, right?
Let's see how much clearancing is needed.
Stock rods on that stroke might mean the bottoms of the piston skirts need a bit o' work?
Might get that done before balancing and coating..
Were the rods rebuilt recently?
Depending upon their condition, there's a lot of people who would do the 'super rod' thing with putting in better bolts like SPS or similar.
Many would automatically do that on any stroker.
You could also take your chances, too.
They also might need some clearancing, near the bolt area.
Maybe not.
76 is right on the edge.
A set of CB Unitechs is only like $100 and solves all your problems.


A CB 76 crank is not likely to need any clearancing, but always check to be sure.
You'll want to make sure before sending it out for spin-balance.
With your fan/hub and pressure plate.
I always have every motor spin-balanced, even stockers.
It's the absolute first thing to have done.
Most good V8 shops can do this, probably in your area?

There's the theory that you lighten the flywheel to compensate for the crank being heavier from counterweights.
I really like chopped flywheels myself. With a counterweight crank you don't hardly notice.
My vote goes to chopped, 12#, even with your heavy car and street use.

A 1700# Kennedy P/P would be perfect, and you can run a nice friendly soft organic disc.

Pick up another fan, probably no need to have it welded, but maybe have the hub welded?
You'd want all of that done before spin-balance.

Your first mock-up will also tell you about where your deck height ends up.
AA cylinders are known to run a bit longer than Mahle.
Check that against the ccs your heads have now.
This will give you an idea of what options you might have doing the chambers.
What ccs are the chambers now?


I'm not going to discuss cams.
Let's see how your headwork project goes,
what your mock-ups look like,
and how your exhaust comes out.

Cams are last. Very last.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Supposedly people have had good luck with these.
Might even cost less than solid shafts and swivel feet in the end.

Less risk on a set of single springs..

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2211105
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

"Available unassembled for $200" hidden in the text...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1686098
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Jason37]

76mm stroke with A type pistons? Not sure how the tin and fan shroud will fit, as it should make for a wider engine. Now if you have B pistons, go for the 5.5" Unitech rod and it should be very close to stock width.

[VWporscheGT3]

[VWporscheGT3]

[VWporscheGT3]

As its stands here we are

AS41 Dual Relief case at a perfect .020" case align bore, STD thrust .

CB performance 76mm, .020" under on mains , .010" on rods.

STD weight VW flywheel

standard Rebuilt VW rods.

AA "A" 94mm barrels and pistons. you would think I had something spiffy for this build.. I dont.. not this one

Some big valve Brazilian heads. marked GO3 I believe. working on the ports , will be able to do more when it get the manifold from cb.

solid rocker shafts, VW rockers, looking for advice on the rocker tips (elephant feet, courier adjusters?)

I'll be going with chromoly pushrods.

then we come to cam. for simplicity sakes I think i might stick with a cam that only needs high rev singles. not that this is a cost factor , I dont really care all that much on that end. I like the power curve of the 110... but i know there are better choices out there. Keep in mind this build isn't a tear up the asphalt build.. just a nice 2L make more power build .

I'll be buying bearings and such for mock up to check deck height and see what I need to set it up. once i know where deck height can be set i can really go to town on the heads to get my compression ratio (which will be determined by cam selection) squared away.

Simple build , cheap build , weighing the options such as hoover mods and the like. but since i got some time yesterday i started getting things cleaned and measured. and for sure getting more serious about this build.
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Clatter]

Cheap Build... Love it.

Some of the best motors start out that way..

Here's a 'sweep the floor' motor i built for my 16-year-old to learn to drive stick.
(And also drive an Oval to high school now and again )

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=692654&highlight=beater

Even with stock heater boxes and shitty shitty Kadrons (God, why am i back messing with Kadrons. ) It still got a detailed and careful assembly.
Haven't posted anything about it, but this motor is in the car lately and been out for testing/tuning - at least as tuned as possible with those karbs.
Having the whole lower end, especially the heavy pressure plate, spin-balanced makes this a different beast than if it was just thrown together with a static balance.
Fucker is smooth as glass. Like silk. Like a very expensive motor..
ONE thing i would not cut corners is getting someone to do a spin-balance on the whole lower end as a unit. Let me know if you need me to hook you up with my guy. It was only like $150.

Like with balancing, your motor would go together similar in a lot of the details.
You're going to want to replace those valve guides in your G03s just like in my G01s. Mostly because they are shitty guides that come loose and need replaced for reliability reasons, but also so a proper port job can be done.

CB sells elephant feet for cheap, unlike $30/ea. for the real P-car adjusters.
The cam you pick will likely have more lift than Mazda Courier feet can handle anyways (even though the thru-oiling of those courier feet is a nice feature).

Because cam and compression go hand-in-hand, and you know the rest of your combo, I'd shoot for the upper end of what single springs are able to handle.
There's quite a bit of variation in singles between brands, and there's more discussion in that thread i linked, but get better singles than just Scat $30 cheapies - like the $45 Bugpack or similar..

The Web 163 in my Oval seems a great choice. It's a bit much for the karbs, but the combination of factors would make it a good cam for your motor here.
My car is lighter, but yours has more displacement and bigger valves, so it will make the cam seem 'smaller' which your heavy car needs.
The 163 is also pushing the limits of single springs, so solid shafts, shaft shimming, spring shimming and careful assembly/geometry is a worthwhile/fun endeavor.

I skip paying $ for new lifters and just send some old ones to SLR to be finished for like $22. Run good oil and Bob's your uncle. So far so good on that for me..

Hoover mods are just drilling and grinding. Why would you not do that?
All you're doing is making the oiling work like VW did with the type 4.
Re-read Bob Hoover's sermon on it and go buy a long drill bit at Home Depot. You'll be glad you did.
If it breaks thru, you can have a dab of weld put on and go again.
My friend Paul in Yerrington can weld cases IIRC.


You're going to have to make up an exhaust... Unless you hit the Powerball and can buy one.
2054 and 40 x 35.5 requires it.
Maybe start gathering some tubing?
While dual quiet packs are cool as ice and get my vote for sure,
if that's only a 1 3/8" setup, you'll have hell to pay trying to keep your motor cool on the freeway.
Go 1 5/8.
Yes, technically 1 1/2" would make more low-end and be correct for a 35.5 exhaust valve, go 1 5/8 anyways.
There's no down side.
You might be building an even better motor one day and thank yourself..


Hope this helps.
Glad to see you in the saddle.
Motor building is the best part IMHO.
I only build cars because i need someplace good to put a motor.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

You coming over Donner to the Bug O weekend after next?

Bring your crank and lower end and i can take it to Robert at Schroeder's for a spin.
Maybe you can pick up a 1700 PP there? Have Joel bring you a fan?

Can't even tell you how much difference that one little step makes...
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[VWporscheGT3]

[Brian_e]

With a 76mm crank, use 5.5 rods, and B pistons, and you will have a near perfect .045" deck height, and keep the engine narrow. You will also have a much easier time assembling it with these rods over ground stock rods. With the B pistons you also get the slipper skirt style, the thinner second ring, and a much lighter piston. All good things.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1253.htm

I also vote for the Web 163. Great cam for a 2000+cc. I built a 94x76 with really good 40x35 heads, 163, 9.0:1, 1 1/2" exhaust and 40mm IDF's. Fantastic driving engine. Lots of power everywhere. The w110 or 120 could work, but they are boring, and uneventful to drive. The 2239 is a great cam in smaller engines. It wont pull high enough when you get into the larger displacement. Stick with something in the 245-250 @.050" range.

Make sure the heads are right. No huge blown out ports, and make sure they get a really good 3+ angle valve job after the port work is done.

Brian
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