What are the best synchronizer rings?

[skalathamus]

Hi,

I have an '86 Vanagon (manual trans) and recently did a transmission rebuild with a low-cost rebuilder. Seems like he cut some corners (shocker), as only a few months later the synchros in second and third are toast. Tons of grinding as I downshift into second at high speed or upshift into third at high speed.

I assume he either didn't replace the synchros I had (he denies this, and I doubt it's true - never had this problem prior to the rebuild and he seems trustworthy... but of course entirely possible) or he used synchros of poor quality. He says he sources everything form Weddle.

The rebuilder is willing to try again at no cost. I figure I have nothing to lose in letting him do it again. I want to make sure he uses the right parts this time. Are there better quality synchros I should be telling him to use? I've heard you want the ones with rounded edges? Diehl?

[MarkWard]

I rebuilt my syncro transmission with synchronizer rings from Weddle. No issues shifting up or down.
_________________
☮️

[gears]

Weddle sells both coated and non-coated (bare brass) synchro rings.

Once a gear has used the coated rings, it cannot be fit with the bare rings (otherwise, shifts will grind). NOT saying I'm certain this is your issue.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[skalathamus]

[MarkWard]

I wasn't aware that using brass rings on a gear that had seen the coated syncro would make a difference, but the coating does add quite a bit of friction that is intended to better grab the gear and spin it up to speed. So, best to do that. We used to lap new syncros into used gears for the race car. The coated ones did not seem to hold up as well in a racing application. The coating seemed to glaze over and not shift as well as a grooved brass ring.

edit: yes, some of them were coated from the factory.
_________________
☮️

[Sodo]

Driving a Vanagon is not like racing. A racer, however is fairly focused on the machinery and more apt & able to adapt the meat to the machine. But in racing, faster is winning & slower is losing.

In an RV, more miles, longer component lifetime, is usually "winning".
Can you change the way you shift to adapt to the machine?

Of all the vehicles out there - where choosing an oil based on "how it shifts", I think the 30 year old,rare, valuable Syncro is perhaps the worst vehicle for that. I guess depending upon your finances or your longevity/reliability goals.

Oil that shifts better is allowing the synchros to bust thru the oil film and grip the cone. But at the same time the gear faces, and bearing contact zones are also busting thru this special oil's film, and wearing out your transaxle.
But shifting better, so there's that.

I'd choose the oil that protects the gears and bearings better, and use the meat (perhaps the meat between the ears) to make it shift.
And keep the lubricant clean too.

Here's a related thread: Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle

I watched a guy set new synchros on gearcones and to feel for wobble.
He said that until the wobble 'wears away' it won't shift very well.
He had 'ways' of reducing the wobble so the synchro would bed in quicker.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[16CVs]

Is his name Ron?

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[bobbyblack]

Just get in there and remove the 'lost' 10mm socket..
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[gears]

Mark .. your observations are consistent with my opinion: The non-coated rings on a new cone are fine, and are more durable in a racing situation .. while the coated rings are preferable for street vehicles. PART of the reason VW Germany went to coated synchros was likely the sulphur additive issues in the mid-'70s. (I think most non-coated rings for early transaxles are from Brazil.)
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[ALIKA T3]

Laso was the manufacturer for coated rings. That`s the ones you are looking for I guess?
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget