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A "GEX" story... the horror.
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evanfrucht
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

Dstolan83 wrote:
Stupid nubbiest question probably: So on my slant six one way to get better compression ratio is to mill/ deck the head or the expensive way , which I did , its to get domed pistons. In the VW world you remove shims and or machine work? What is the purpose of the copper head gasket?


you either remove shims or deck the case to get deck height where you want it. making the deck height smaller will increase compression ratio to an extent.

Once the deck height is set to about .04' then you figure out what CR you have and go from there. If you want get the compression ratio higher, you can fly cut heads to make the chambers smaller or achieve that some other way (perhaps welding, but no one really does that on VW, at least not commonly.)

Basically, if you have no more room to go smaller with the deck height, than the only way is to flycut the heads for a smaller combustion chamber.
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Dstolan83
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

Just plugged the numbers in to JBugs Calculator and it is saying to get 9:1 I need a deck hight of 0.021 . We will see what happens when I re check things
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

Since our pistons don't ride in the block, there are multiple ways of changing DH. Mixing different pin height pistons with different rod lengths, cutting the cylinder bases down, or adding shims to the bottom of the cylinder. Or you can "deck" the case where the cylinders sit.

The copper head gasket is another way you can change it because normally our engines use no head gasket. Some people like them, some don't.
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Dstolan83
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

So I Retorqued the deck hight tool and double checked my TDC and took the measurements again. With not shims I will be at 9.2 and with the shim I have I will be at 8.7 .
I checked it this time with my Venere scale Calipers Versus this morning I used my digital calipers. Thinking the inconsistency was in my top dead center and or digital calibers.
Don’t know why I would need to check, but might clay the pistons to make sure I don’t have any valves Interference and probably run it without any shims
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

What is your deck without shims? You should have .040 (or very close) minimum
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Dstolan83
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

With out the shim I have .014 If I use the shim I have it gives me a total height of just under.04 . Mind you my calipers are of average cost not the greatest but definitely better than harbor Freight. I did check them against a few different feeler gauges. That’s how I figured out my digital ones were off . So what you are getting at is I need to run the shim which is fine with me . Thanks for the heads up. It may seam like I am being anal but I just don’t have the experience and the books I have didn’t really go this far in depth
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

.040 is considered the minimum safe deck height.

If your compression ratio ends up too low, you fly cut the head chambers to bring it back up.

But if the deck height ends up too much, say .060, then you start to lose performance. A nice tight deck makes for a snappy happy engine.
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

https://www.cbperformance.com/Calculators-s/153.htm

I like the CB calculators.. FWIW.

Now,
You’re sure you have the right numbers, correct?
Maybe give them another eyeball for good measure..
With 52ccs chamber volume
90.5mm bore
69mm stroke
.040” deck height
It gives you 8.6:1 CR.

IIRC, you’re running an Engle W110 cam, correct?
The cam plays a large part in what CR you shoot for.

8.6:1 would be a nice safe cool-running CR for your combo.
While some might say to shoot for more,
Less will make it more forgiving of an imperfect tune.
It will tolerate less-than-ideal fuel and run cooler than if it was higher.

Still a decent bump up in compression,
So making good power as well.
Anything under .040 deck is less than safe theoretically anyways,
So there you go.
Looks like you’re good,
And can start thinking about putting it back together.

Supposedly Deves has supply problems.
Nothing wrong with Grant rings.
Had good luck with Hastings myself as well.

If you’re feeling anal, maybe touch off the cylinders with a dingle-ball ‘glaze breaker’ hone before assembly..
Something like 320-grit for cast rings.
Brush Research sells them for a reasonable price.
Most any auto machine shop will offer this service.


Good on you for doing a better job than you have to on this motor.
Especially when you’re new at this,
You want to do the best you can,
Because you really don’t know what you can get away with yet, right? Wink
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Dstolan83
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

Finally have a 100% of the parts . Finished doing a rough build to make sure everything fit and moved freely. Just got it all apart and cleaned the hell out of everything, was shocked that I was still getting metal shavings out the block I have cleaned that thing 10 times now .
Do have a question, when I break in the motor what is the best place to set extra fans? One by each head or just one huge shop fan covering the motor ?
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

If you have the regular cooling fan and all of the tin in place,
No need for anything else..
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

Only read the last page but...
Did you check the center and both sides of the pistons for calculating deck height? The piston teeter totters on the sides a bit and you will get different readings.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

Just a little update. I was having a hell of a time time trying to get the rocker geometry right and some how just rotating the crank by hand with a small ratchet I picked up a pretty good bow in both the #4 push rods , scats high strength steel rods, so at that point I Bi$&he’d out and throw the towel in. The almost complete motor is now in the very capable hands of Brothers Vw Machine shop in Cali. They are going to take it to a turn key and Dinotune it to the RAD Holley 350 and my CB performance distribution and coil running to it potential. Thanks for all the support, suggestions and help through this learning process.
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Help choosing the right carb set up for GEX 1776 Reply with quote

From: My GEX story getting worse (long post)

Dstolan83 wrote:
I made the huge mistake of buy one of GEX’s performance “rebuilt” long block . Got the motor and noticed some discrepancies and popped of the valve covers to check lash and that was when shit hit the fan , 3 different types of Pushrods and all different lengths. So I broke the motor open and with the help of you (my post with more of the story is “help choosing a carburetor for GEX1776”)guys I was able to build a good motor so I thought! Ended up buy a new cam, valve Springs, push rods , oil pump , straight Cut cam gear set, all from SCATS basically their c35 cam kit and anything Valve train related. Also ended up have to buy a couple sets of piston rings, the ring gaps GEX did was way off . I messed up one ring trying to teach my 10 year old son how to file ring gaps and the final set of Grant rings that is on their now. I had Brothers VW machine shop rebalance everything and was one my way so I thought ! Came time to start setting the valve geometry I tried and tried tell I noticed that a brand new “High Strength” push rod was bent/ bowed . At that point I threw
the towel in and sent it back to Brothers to complete and have it Dino tuned. I was hoping that would be the end of my mistake well I just got off the phone with Brothers and they found a huge pin hole that runs throughout the section of the block for the distributor, the case is crap and unfortunately I repairable. Super frustrating, according to GEX they hot run every motor before shipping,
shouldn’t this have seen this? They said they also inspected the cases for cracks and flaws , not sure if that means visually or by a process like magnafluxing. Brothers saw it via a visual inspection. I noticed some stuff and took pictures and sent them to GEX in a non confrontational email and GEX informed me that it is/ was casting flaws , the forum was kinda on that same casting flaw / harmless idea. So now more money more time to save a POS. So without knowing I was gambling with $2600 I bet on red and lost on black .
Brothers VW machine shop is now going to replace the case and build the motor completely. Pros and cons of this is now I don’t know if the work I did to build the short block was good or not , pros I might just end up with a little warranty after this . On track to be the most expensive “ budget 1776” build ever

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: A "GEX" story... the horror. Reply with quote

You should post your review here - https://www.yelp.com/biz/gex-international-booneville?osq=Gex

Not that gex probably gives a shit, but some businesses these days dedicate a person to monitor and respond to yelp reviews.
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Dstolan83
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: A "GEX" story... the horror. Reply with quote

Well it’s been awhile since I posted. Just a bit of a recap, I ended up giving up and sent everything to Brothers Machine shop in Ca to finish it up. That’s where thing go from wtf to $$$ finally a motor. Once at brothers the bad news kept rolling in. First off, the line bore what crap on the mains and the grind on the crack was not any better. That main journals did not match the grind on crank, the bearings where all wrong to start and I apparently pinched the front bearing. In my efforts. Brothers questioned if the GEX motor could have even build oil pressure. The line bore on the cam was way off to, probably why I bent a hardened pushrod during assembly. That’s not the worst of it, as brothers was checking everything out they confirmed exactly what I thought, and was reassured by GEX that it was casting lines, that the case was cracked and had pen holes that someone did a sh?tty job trying to fix. One of which was so bad and in a critical lspot that Brothers basically told me I had no choice but to replace the case. So really the only parts that remain on my motor from GEX are the Barrels, Piston, rods, and wrist pins. Hell GEX even messed up the rings, the gaps were all over the place. So my new motor is:
1776 stock stroke 69
Big valve head ( I port matched, polished intake runners ). I cc’d them at 58 cc
Scat C35 cam, bought the kit : sprigs, lifters , high strength steel push rods
Scat adjustable straight cut cam gear ( set up at 0 cam timing)
New to me case
CB performance windage tray
Mega Spark dizzy, Coil, and wire Kit
Lightened flywheel
RAD stainless steel intake
Modified Holley avenger 350 2bbl
Holley Red top Electric Pump
Energy 3/8 Braided fuel line w/ -6 an fittings and a 100mic and 40 mic fuel filters. ( Energy is an Amazon brand)
Stock heater box exhaust ( that’s next once I save some $$)

So to make a long story short I bought, $2300, the world’s most expensive big bore kit. So not adding up all the extra parts, the GEX crap plus what I spent at brothers, $2200 roughly, brings the total to $4500. I would guess that I have another $1000, on the low side, in extras grand total not adding the intake and carb to $5400 and now a year later.
Big lesson learned. When I started this process ever other shop I called had a waiting list of at least 6 months for a rebuild turn key and now I understand why. On that note the motor is in and running. Only thing keeping me from driving is some one hacked off some of the all thread rod on the OLD SCHOOL Select a Drop and I am sitting tire on finder with the 2.5 inch drop spindles I got talked into when I bought my CB performance front disc kit.
All and all the customers survive I have received from all the vendors has been great especially from Brothers, CB, and RADesign, who I got the intake and Carb from.
Will take some pictures and video so everyone can see in the next day or two!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: A "GEX" story... the horror. Reply with quote

Wow! The traps that are laid for the unsuspecting!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: A "GEX" story... the horror. Reply with quote

I would try to get the GEX charges removed by the credit card company, dispute that. Or take GEX to people's court, Judge Jerry, Judge Judy !!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: A "GEX" story... the horror. Reply with quote

You've probably already been told this, but you're way better off removing/undoing everything about the Select-a-drop and sticking with the spindles for now. You should be able to weld the beam back to a stock state (or a local welder can if you disassemble it and take it in).
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: A "GEX" story... the horror. Reply with quote

This is a Matched case U can tell by ,,they stamped both halves Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: A "GEX" story... the horror. Reply with quote

I don’t know if I ever added to story but when I sent there 💩 to Brothers they found that it was cracked and GEX tried to JB weld the whole at was drilled in the crack, in hopes of stopping it from spreading. It was right by the machined area for the distributor. That nightmare goes on and on . There is a reason why he moved to the state he did. The dollar amount I spent falls under small clams court , to my dismay another member took it all the way and lost just costing him more money in the long run . LESSON LEARNED
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