Late Bay Oil plug near oil cooler mount leak

[BUSBOSS]

Hi! On a recent 2.0 oil rebuild, I have traced an oil leak with UV dye to the lower hex plug on the case near the oil cooler mount. How far does that plug get screwed in? I stopped at the distance pictured in the second photo and it still has room to go as it is not tight.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten)

[ratwell]

When those plugs are pipe thread (NPT) they should bind after a specified number of threads due to the taper.

It's probably worth pulling the plug to see what the thread pitch is, evaluating whether or not you want to re-use it and then cleaning the threads and applying a new amount of sealant.

Aside: is the white stuff Loctite 565? Maybe. I used it once and it leaked on me and I'm not convinced it's the best choice for those oil gallery plugs.

Doesn't Loctite 577 make more sense to use?
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'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ

[SGKent]

those plugs have been installed by someone because they are not stock. I recently had a real problem getting some to seal, and ended using NPTF threaded plugs along with Loctite 567. You must be sure that plug does not go so deep that it plugs the passage. Not all plugs are created equal so you can find some that are NPTF and slightly larger diameter by a few thousandths. RWK is a good person to ask about it too.

All that said, if oil is in the threads during your repair, new Loctite is not going to work well. I had to clean the threads, and then put a tiny (I mean very small amount) at the last (internal side) thread on the plug so it pushed a tiny amount of sealant ahead of the plug when it went in, but not so much that it could come loose and cause bearing damage. I tried Loctite 565, 518 and teflon tape. All failed just sitting with no pressure on them other than oil in the galleries, only the Loctite 567 worked. All that said, I also have a fall back solution that I have not had to execute yet if the problem returns. I bought some Moroso non-anodized aluminum plugs that can be screwed in dry, and tig welded shut by a certified welder with the right skills and equipment. That would require taking the case apart, cleaning it, welding it and then putting the engine back together.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[BUSBOSS]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Should I try to keep screwing it in to see if its tightens and stops before blocking the lower passage?
_________________
All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten)

[Wildthings]

Try just a square head pipe plug, they are not designed to go in flush and should seal well before their threads get buried in the hole as per the flush style plug you have. There is not need for a flush style plug in this location.

Here is an image of what you are looking for. You should be able to get one of the correct size in the plumbing section of your favorite hardware store. Black iron would be preferred over galvanized which could flake off. You might also be able to find a brass square head plug and use that.

[BUSBOSS]

[ratwell]

[raygreenwood]

As Ratwell noted.....and I agree with.....the biggest problem with that plug will be if the threads are not "blind"....meaning if the threads break through into a larger diameter cavity on the inside.

I have a habit whenever I can get them of using straight thread plugs (meaning not an NPT tapered thread) on those particular galley plugs. Because......its a narrow, thin wall piece of metal. Its easily possible to crack that area when you tighten the plugs down with a tapered thread.

That last common being said....the way either of these plugs seal is by bringing the thread lands up tight against each other.....so the plug MUST bottom out tight either in a blind thread or by virtue of the tapered thread.

As for loctite....yes you can get it clean enough to use loctite. Oil and metal is not magic. If you got it clean enough to use loctite while you had it apart you can get it clean enough now.

Mount the engine so no new oil can flow toward the threads. Use paper towels to absorb any oil inside the galley away from the thread area as far as you can get it.

You will not clean this with purple power or simple gredn or a detergent......you will also not get it clean with simple polar solvents like aceyone or denatured alcohol (methanol).

You will first start with soaking the threads with a hot solvent blend to flush away surface oils......something like Berrymans Chemtool. Do that several times. Do not let it dry on the surface. Blot it with cotton swabs if necessary but use each one only once.

Do this until its clean, clean, clean.....then switch to a single hot solvent like MEK with swabs.
The final solvent will be acetone. Sounds like a pain?......no....taking the engine out for an o leak is a pain. This is just 15-20 minutes of low order work.

Then go to Grainger and get a small bottle of Loctite 7649 primer for anerobic adhesives (thread locker is anerobic).

Too many people skip this primer because they read the SDS....and see thst it is 90-100% acetone.....and they just assume its a rip off.....and they are 100% wrong.

The acetone in the primer is first a carrier.....and second....absorbs moisture because its water miscable.....and also is fast evaporating. Most importantly its the carrier for 1%-2% of 2-ethylhexanoic acid thats in the primer. The acetone gets it into the metal pores.

This is a charge neutral chemical that acts as a catalyst for polyurethanes and some polyesters and is used as a drying agent.....on its own.....without oxygen. So yeah....it works.

In many of the factories we go into its weekly or daily that a big greasy machine two stories high and 100 feet long....strips a thread or oil line plug or fitting. We use vario7s threadlockers with 100% success for repairs.....but you just have to clean it properly.

And.....unless the threads can make up TIGHT.....either due to taper, blind thread or outer flange or bolt head......the thread lands will not tighten up enough to be "oxygen sealed".....therefore.....anerobic thread lockers will not work. Too many times people apply loctite into sloppy threads and it does not work.
Then they assume its because they had oil in the threads.....when actually it is uulsually because they could not get air tight threads.

The challange with these particular plugs is having too much plug protruding on the outside and interfering with sheet metal (just going off memory).

If the bore/hole is threaded into the inner cavity and you cannot get it tight.....and going to the next larher plig or a tapered plug is not an option.....you might be able to get away witj q plug like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Male-Hex-Countersunk-Plug...4199667699

Ray

[BUSBOSS]

[SGKent]

they didn't come that way. It is an upgrade done by a PO.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[RWK]

The plug in the second pic. is too deep, most likely tapped to deep, like wild thing says, try a sq. head brass plug, brass expands similar to Al. Those don't go as deep to seal also.
you can grind the head off after you tighten if needed.
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[raygreenwood]

[BUSBOSS]

[BUSBOSS]

[SGKent]

see if you can get NPTF plugs that size.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[BUSBOSS]

Thanks for all the advice guys! I followed your suggestions and did a deep clean of the gallery. I also blocked off the passageway and used compressed air along with the recommended solvents. The original plug was off by a mm or so and would never get snug even after cleaning and reinstall. I went with a NPT brass plug and it fit perfectly without the need to retap. I also used the Permatex surface preparation and activator spray before applying the high temp and oil resistant sealant. It will cure for a few days. I will reassemble and let you know how the test goes early next week.

Thanks again and enjoy the holiday!

Happy Thanksgiving!
_________________
All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten)

[raygreenwood]

let me add to this.....that is good sealer....but personally I would have used Loctite.

While yes...you want to seal it...you also want it NOT to come loose. I guess how secure it really is depends on whether you were able to put about 18-20 lbs of torque on it. If you did that...its in there good.

I would stake it at one point as well. A single deep punch mark in the case about 1/32" from the edge....and maybe one adjacent to it on the plug.

Ray

[BUSBOSS]

[calvinater]

Aren't Locktite and Permatex the same company these days?
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"Albatross"!

[raygreenwood]