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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:14 pm Post subject: 6V/12V Wiper |
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I've searched the forum but can't find a definitive answer. I've got a 65 Type 34 which has been converted to 12V The wiper motor is a 12V two speed with a nasty generic switch. I've got a Type 3 6V switch with rheostat and 6V motor. If I wire it it up and apply 12V it works ok but too fast even on slow speed. I've got a 4ohm 40watt resistor but it doesn't work at all with it wired in series with the supply. What am I doing wrong?
Can I use the 12V motor with the 6V switch?
How do I wire the 12V motor to the 6V switch?
Can I use the 6V motor and switch at 12V?
How do I wire up the dropper resistor?
TIA |
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mdege
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018
Posts: 940
Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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First of all I would get a DC/DC converter and not a voltage drop resistor. The DC/DC converter will supply you with fixed 6V. In my splitty I used a 5A linear regulator LM338. But, these days you should be able to find a i.e. 10A variable DC/DC converter for not too much money.
Basically you wire up the switch and wiper motor like you would on a 6V car. But, you don't feed the 12V to the switch. Instead you run the 12V (Kl.15) to the DC/DC converter and then the 6V from there to the switch.
Can I use the 12V motor with the 6V switch?
The switch itself would be no problem, but the rheostat might not survive because it is designed for 6V or you might not get the same speed rage as with a 6V motor.
How do I wire the 12V motor to the 6V switch?
The 12V motor has two speeds by tapping into the armature at a different angle which reduces the amount of windings and therefore changes the magnetic field. This makes the motor turn at a slower speed. For this application you would use only one of the connections to the motor, the one for the higher speed and connect everything as you would with the single speed 6V Motor.
Can I use the 6V motor and switch at 12V?
I would not.
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1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:12 am Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| Thank you for your very informative reply. |
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Air-Cooled Head
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| mdege wrote: |
First of all I would get a DC/DC converter and not a voltage drop resistor. The DC/DC converter will supply you with fixed 6V. In my splitty I used a 5A linear regulator LM338. But, these days you should be able to find a i.e. 10A variable DC/DC converter for not too much money.
Basically you wire up the switch and wiper motor like you would on a 6V car. But, you don't feed the 12V to the switch. Instead you run the 12V (Kl.15) to the DC/DC converter and then the 6V from there to the switch.
Can I use the 12V motor with the 6V switch?
The switch itself would be no problem, but the rheostat might not survive because it is designed for 6V or you might not get the same speed rage as with a 6V motor.
How do I wire the 12V motor to the 6V switch?
The 12V motor has two speeds by tapping into the armature at a different angle which reduces the amount of windings and therefore changes the magnetic field. This makes the motor turn at a slower speed. For this application you would use only one of the connections to the motor, the one for the higher speed and connect everything as you would with the single speed 6V Motor.
Can I use the 6V motor and switch at 12V?
I would not. |
Thanks, this is exactly what I’m looking for. (Went thru your build thread. Excellent craftsmanship!)
So I’m in this same situation. Car was converted to 12V by PO. The wipers have never worked and I’m not sure if the switch or the motor is the problem. The wiper motor has some type of unlabeled box soldered onto 2 wires coming from the motor body (not the harness from switch to motor). I assume this was a resistor or something to accommodate the conversion. I’ll need to investigate more closely.
I’m thinking my best bet will be to get a 12V motor and wire only 1 speed, as suggested.
Your thoughts,please.
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
| mdege wrote: |
First of all I would get a DC/DC converter and not a voltage drop resistor. The DC/DC converter will supply you with fixed 6V. In my splitty I used a 5A linear regulator LM338. But, these days you should be able to find a i.e. 10A variable DC/DC converter for not too much money.
Basically you wire up the switch and wiper motor like you would on a 6V car. But, you don't feed the 12V to the switch. Instead you run the 12V (Kl.15) to the DC/DC converter and then the 6V from there to the switch.
Can I use the 12V motor with the 6V switch?
The switch itself would be no problem, but the rheostat might not survive because it is designed for 6V or you might not get the same speed rage as with a 6V motor.
How do I wire the 12V motor to the 6V switch?
The 12V motor has two speeds by tapping into the armature at a different angle which reduces the amount of windings and therefore changes the magnetic field. This makes the motor turn at a slower speed. For this application you would use only one of the connections to the motor, the one for the higher speed and connect everything as you would with the single speed 6V Motor.
Can I use the 6V motor and switch at 12V?
I would not. |
Thanks, this is exactly what I’m looking for. (Went thru your build thread. Excellent craftsmanship!)
So I’m in this same situation. Car was converted to 12V by PO. The wipers have never worked and I’m not sure if the switch or the motor is the problem. The wiper motor has some type of unlabeled box soldered onto 2 wires coming from the motor body (not the harness from switch to motor). I assume this was a resistor or something to accommodate the conversion. I’ll need to investigate more closely.
I’m thinking my best bet will be to get a 12V motor and wire only 1 speed, as suggested.
Your thoughts,please. |
I'm using a 67 only wiper motor with a push button dash.
Last edited by ataraxia on Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Air-Cooled Head
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
I'm using a 67 only wiper motor with a push button dash. |
Exactly what I’m trying to do!
Looking for a 67 motor.
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HenrikL
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Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 313
Location: Sweden
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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Admittedly, the hardest part of this conversion is finding a 67 only wiper motor.
I may swap to a 68 wiper motor to get the two speed and connect that to a rocker switch for the different speeds. |
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Air-Cooled Head
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
Admittedly, the hardest part of this conversion is finding a 67 only wiper motor.
I may swap to a 68 wiper motor to get the two speed and connect that to a rocker switch for the different speeds. |
I’d thought of that. In fact, there’s a PO installed mystery switch under the dash. Maybe he tried that too.
Fortunately found a 67 motor in the classifieds. Should have it in a couple of days.
Thanks! This will help me A LOT!!
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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Well, my worst fear, realized: I broke a pin on the Push Button Dash. 
Why couldn’t VW use push on connectors instead of soldering?
So how do I test the wiper part of the PBD? So far I’ve been unable to get power on any of the individual pins for the wipers. Perhaps I’m doing It wrong? I’m using a test light.
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
Well, my worst fear, realized: I broke a pin on the Push Button Dash.
Why couldn’t VW use push on connectors instead of soldering?
So how do I test the wiper part of the PBD? So far I’ve been unable to get power on any of the individual pins for the wipers. Perhaps I’m doing It wrong? I’m using a test light. |
If it's installed in your car - you just plug the wires into the connector that should already be there. Make sure you note that one of the wire locations was changed by VW between 64 and 67/68.
I never really tested them against a unit not installed in my car so I can't comment on that but the 64 wiring diagram should be of use in figuring it out. |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
Admittedly, the hardest part of this conversion is finding a 67 only wiper motor.
I may swap to a 68 wiper motor to get the two speed and connect that to a rocker switch for the different speeds. |
My son did this, but used a 69 wiper motor and late style switch. We ended up carving a little off the knob, so it would fit into the escutcheon, so it would turn off. Other than the escutcheon being a little larger than the early style, it works just fine. Note, you can do a similar thing to the headlight switch to make those parts match (what he did too).
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| My son did this, but used a 69 wiper motor and late style switch. We ended up carving a little off the knob, so it would fit into the escutcheon, so it would turn off. Other than the escutcheon being a little larger than the early style, it works just fine. Note, you can do a similar thing to the headlight switch to make those parts match (what he did too). |
This isn't really feasible with a push button dash, though. If it were a late 64 or a 65, it's a good option! |
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DHanna
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2004
Posts: 240
Location: North Richmond, N.S.W Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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Great to see this info is still helping the members. After another 10 years my one is still working fine.
D. H |
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Air-Cooled Head
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
Well, my worst fear, realized: I broke a pin on the Push Button Dash.
Why couldn’t VW use push on connectors instead of soldering?
So how do I test the wiper part of the PBD? So far I’ve been unable to get power on any of the individual pins for the wipers. Perhaps I’m doing It wrong? I’m using a test light. |
If it's installed in your car - you just plug the wires into the connector that should already be there. Make sure you note that one of the wire locations was changed by VW between 64 and 67/68.
I never really tested them against a unit not installed in my car so I can't comment on that but the 64 wiring diagram should be of use in figuring it out. |
I’ve come to the conclusion that the PBD wiper switch is dead.
Using the (early) wire diagram and Dhanna’s link, I determined which each wire was. Connected to corresponding tab on the PBD, and, nothing. Now power on any tab.
Also discovered that when the motor is running, 53 (park) and 31b alternate getting power. 53 gets power when the arm hits the park position. 31b (Brown wire) is powered while the arm is not at the park position. Can’t figure out how that works to park the wipers.[/i]
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:49 am Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
Well, my worst fear, realized: I broke a pin on the Push Button Dash.
Why couldn’t VW use push on connectors instead of soldering?
So how do I test the wiper part of the PBD? So far I’ve been unable to get power on any of the individual pins for the wipers. Perhaps I’m doing It wrong? I’m using a test light. |
If it's installed in your car - you just plug the wires into the connector that should already be there. Make sure you note that one of the wire locations was changed by VW between 64 and 67/68.
I never really tested them against a unit not installed in my car so I can't comment on that but the 64 wiring diagram should be of use in figuring it out. |
I’ve come to the conclusion that the PBD wiper switch is dead.
Using the (early) wire diagram and Dhanna’s link, I determined which each wire was. Connected to corresponding tab on the PBD, and, nothing. Now power on any tab.
Also discovered that when the motor is running, 53 (park) and 31b alternate getting power. 53 gets power when the arm hits the park position. 31b (Brown wire) is powered while the arm is not at the park position. Can’t figure out how that works to park the wipers.[/i] |
I'm not using the 31b wire - it's capped off. Make sure you're making note of the two wires that changed between the early wiring diagram and the later diagram. |
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Air-Cooled Head
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: 6V/12V Wiper |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
I'm not using the 31b wire - it's capped off. Make sure you're making note of the two wires that changed between the early wiring diagram and the later diagram. |
Yes, 31b was capped.
Comparing the early-late diagrams, only the wire colors changed. It’s still 53, 53a, 53b from switch to motor. No brown 31b on early switch or motor. Did the function of the circuits change? Power is 53a & 53b, leaving 53 for park. Power must be removed from 53a and applied to 53 to activate park. They both cannot be powered simultaneously. I verified this on the bench.
However, with no motor attached, I cannot get power on 53, 53a or 53b, at the switch, regardless of button pressed in or not. Bad switch?
Update:
Finally got power to the switch by using one of the mystery wires. Switch seems to work.
But no love when the motor is connected.
Edit: Resolved. Solution? Get a good ground. (The simplest things, huh?)
Must have been an extended senior moment.
Thanks for y’all’s help![/b]
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