October 52 Zwitter

[esde]

[bally]

[esde]

I spent way too much time trying to get the transmission together yesterday. Really thought I was going crazy, so I took it half back apart and started measuring things. And I found the issue:
the standard 2nd gear ratio is 1.88 and has 32 teeth. This is my NOS 2nd gear, which is the optional lower "alpine" gears and is 2.357 with 33 teeth

They're close enough that they "almost" fit, but don't.
Here is how close they are: 1.88 on left 2.35 on right

Picked out the best 2nd gear from my donor parts and put it all back together. Then everything fit correctly and no further issues..

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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[esde]

After getting the transmission together, I got it installed and went right to work on the engine. I really had too many things apart at once, and if I could get the engine back together it would get two dozen boxes and bins out of the way. I had last left the case closed but not sealed, with the crank and rods balanced, assembled, and had checked all bearing clearances. Rebuilt heads with the chambers cut 4mm (38cc) to get compression up to 8.1:1. Heres the chamber compared to a stock chamber

Realized that the pushrods needed to be shortened the same amount I had cut the heads, and went through some headaches to get it done. Next time I'll get the adapter lifters and use cut to length pushrods. One issue I had is that I think several of the pushrod ends are about 1mm from being fully seated. I didn't want to bend any more, and they may seat themselves once it's run hot for a bit. Here's the jig I ended up making after bending a few. More details in the link if you care

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=766456&highlight=
Sourced a wolfsburg west camshaft, and tried a few different cam gears till I found one that gave correct backlash. Got my son to help with the torque wrench, and got it all bolted together

Had a few of these NOS gasket sets, obviously the rubber bits are no good, but the rest is fine.

Found these circlips for the piston wrist pins at McMaster-Carr, as I do not like the stock wire clips

a different helper, Ellie found and destroyed the 36hp oil screen for this engine.

Last year she chewed up the wooden knob for a hurst shifter. She probably won't be welcome in the barn when I'm doing the interior.
I had blasted all my 36hp tin months ago, and I picked out a decent set for paint

Rebuilt fuel pump and carb

Another issue came from fly cutting the heads, now the intake and exhaust are too long:

Which was just some cutting and welding. Which was also a good time to clear the clogged heat riser in the manifold. I had started to dress the engine, and covered everything with a welding blanket rather than strip it back down when it came time to tack weld it

The manifold came out fine, you can barely tell it was modified

The muffler is a project. Fixing the width is easy. I just cut and bent the passenger side. My intention is to modify the outlets so I'm not concerned about their location.

But, someone before me cut the tubes that connect to the heater boxes. Ugh, more to fix

Blasted an air cleaner, and dressed the engine somewhat.

So, while this isn't the correct engine for a 52, it's perfectly sufficient to get the car around. My goal is to have this car moving under it's own power this summer, as running projects seem to keep better momentum. And, even in it's Frankenstein state, it may get dragged out to a few shows and events. Eventually, this engine will get backdated with a seamed shroud and other correct 25hp stuff, or I'll build the 25hp case I have for it.
Speaking of 25hp stuff, here's a correct Zwitter carb, that I bought from a good guy in Portugal. (Same guy I got the zwitter ash tray from)

I also got the dash cigar lighter from him, but don't seem to have a picture of it.
Bodywork had stopped, as I wasn't happy with my parcel tray section and was looking for alternatives. But given the state of international shipping now, the parts from the guy in Warsaw would be well over 2k shipped to me. Theres a guy in Minnesota that has the section, but getting it packed and shipped wasn't working out either. Even my discount freight options were blowing the price out of my range. So, I'm back to fixing the crusty parts I have. Just spooled up some .023 wire for the mig, to do better with the paper thin rusty bits.
SD
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[bally]

Great update. I particularly liked the manifold and exhaust mods. Thanks for sharing.

Dave

[esde]

Lots happening over the last few weeks:
Muffler repaired/ modified and installed. I'll eventually make some custom tail pipes to go under the early rear apron since it doesn't have any cutout for the peashooters. In the end it'll look like a vintage Abarth muffler

I've been cleaning up and rebuilding the front suspension and brakes. New NOS kingpins/ link pins/ bearings, and rebuilt some 58-65 brakes. I blasted and primed all of the early brake backing plates and drums, and boxed them for safe keeping

Blasted and pressed the pedal assembly apart.

The bushings are shot so I'm waiting for new ones
I had found a better rear luggage shelf, as the one I was trying to repair was just too thin to get a decent weld. The seller and I finally worked it out and it shows up fairly quickly. It had to get partially cut and folded, to fit into a box that wasn't outrageously expensive to ship.

Unfolded

It's a really nice piece. Someone spent time getting it out without wrecking it

Stopped in at my clients shop after hours to utilize the blast booth. It makes every subsequent step so much more enjoyable, having bare clean parts

repairing where it was cut, and some of the drilled out welds

Dropped it in the car and it fits perfectly, which made me very happy

Before it can get welded in, I have to fix the rust behind the deckled hinge mounts. I've been dreading this, because it means taking things farther apart.. but here goes
Drilled out the welds, and very carefully removed it.

Unfortunately this seam rust never goes away unless you completely open things like this

I made a repair piece big enough to replace the worst area, and welded up the pinholes on the sides. Didn't want to replace everything, as the old spot welds are my alignment points to help reinstall everything.

I'll have this all installed by weeks end
Last bit
I had been looking for a better driver side front fender, as this one is pretty bad

There really isn't anything locally thats better than this, and I ultimately decided to order a new BBT driver side fender. All the feedback I read, and messages from other people suggested that while expensive, they were a great match to the originals.
Arrived, packed well

but, BUT it's got issues., For the price they should not have issues
The transition where the mounting flange turns to follow the apron straight down is poorly done. Something with the flange is askew, and you can't start all the mounting bolts in the holes, and this sits proud no matter what you do.

I was pretty bummed about this and boxed the fender back up. I'm gonna call the vendor tomorrow before I pull my hair out trying to figure out why it's wrong, but I'd bet money they're going to give me a run around. Bleh

SD
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[50Splitman]

I found with my standard split BBT front fenders, I had to trim the mounting flange of the fender behind the headlight bucket, between the 2nd and 3rd holes. This matched the factory fender mounting flanges, as this part of the front quarter panel fender mounting area is narrower due to the intent for the spare tire. Once I trimmed this part of the fenders, I was able to push this section down, twist the fender a bit, and then it mounted flush. You may want to check this area to see if it helps.

[esde]

[50Splitman]

[Rome]

[esde]

So I have hit a wall with the rear sheetmetal and need some help. After fitting the luggage shelf, I reinstalled the dummy engine and started to fit the pieces that hold the engine bay seals. And something is off. Either the luggage shelf is too low, or the transmission is too high, or some combination of mistakes. I've done the best I can with pictures, notes, factory manuals, and other samba threads, but at this point I need someone that has an original car to take some measurements for me.
Here's where I am. With the lower firewall tin about where I think it should be, I put the dummy engine in, and the seal channel is lower than it should be as well as too far rearward.

The channel is sitting 3/4" below the top edge of the front engine tin, and just barely in front of it. I can't imagine how the transmission could be too high unless the frame horns are bent. The luggage shelf is where it went naturally, based on the original welds under the window and starting down the firewall on either side. I could maybe have raised it 1/4-1/2" and also push it forward 1/4" but I don't think that would make enough difference to fix my issues.
Here's the luggage shelf to trans clearance

this space is 3/4" ; 19mm
This is from the gallery, it looks like the seal channel is roughly even with the transmission bell housing

The firewall is pretty much in plane with the face of the transmission.

Could I have the wrong front engine tin? It seems like the tin should align with the channel like this

And, in case this wasn't enough, the apron is tight also, which is confusing. The apron is a nice fit to the fenders and decklid. But the seal channel is too tight to the rear engine tin. And, it's also too low, again by about 3/4" ; 19mm. You can see it below the rear tin here

Tight fit here

distance from the trans input shaft tot he seal channel is 16-3/8" : 416mm

The whole thing makes me feel like the transmission is too high, because that would explain the channel being too low in front and behind the engine. But how? Any help is much appreciated, as I've been staring at it for long enough that I'm seeing spots. Not afraid to do whatever needs to be done to make it right, just what exactly is that? It's been a long road here, don't really want to blindly start horsing on the wrong parts....
SD
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[50Splitman]

What height rubber isolation blocks are you using between the body and the rear body-to-chassis mounts? I have never seen both frame horns bent the way you describe, but not saying it is impossible.

[Chickensoup]

the only idea I have is to loosen the mounting bolts on the transaxle, and see if you can scoot it back. Are the nose cone mount bolts tight? I had a loose one and it absolutely pushed the transaxle back AND crooked AND caused the clutch cable to slip off the pedal assembly hook.
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-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[esde]

[esde]

A partial update on the engine bay issues, and some other stuff that I decided to tackle.

So I put a post in the oval section, to collect the interior measurements of a type 1 36hp engine bay. I chose the oval forum as I figure it would get more hits there.. VW Jimbo and Mika got me a bunch of the info I needed, and there are a few measurements that I'm waiting for. Here's the post
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768074
Mike really came through with dimensions and pictures of the factory tool used to check alignment of all of these pieces.

Jims measurements filled in most of the gaps between Mika's and the factory dimensions. Most every measurement on the car is correct, or very close. It may be sitting a little far forward on the pan, or it could be because I used a 60's inner fender/ rear body mount panel and not the correct 50's part. Who knows. But, what I have found is that by shimming the rear body mount 3/8", and dropping the rear of the trans 1/8" (filed the holes in the hanger) the engine is now at the correct height in the engine bay
You can see in this pic, my rear tin is tight to the channel, but at least it's at the right height.

I have to get my hydraulic rams to tweak a few things, but I'm pretty sure I'll have this all sorted with much less swearing.
The rear apron might have been a big issue. It was completely taco'd when I got it. Folded, creased, the two sections had been squashed together. I managed to straighten it, used an airbag to separate the pieces, bead blasted, shrinking disc to get the bad hills out, and then Ospho'd dit and epoxy coated the inside. Good grief.

While working on that, I was also working on this. The grill section below the window is very delicate once you remove the inner support, so best to get it back together ASAP. While everything was open I sorted out the two bent grill ribs, and treated and filled the worst of the pitting. Then I decided to get some Azure blue, and get a proper coat of paint up inside the vents, before it goes back together.

The strip is the original color from behind the front vin tag

Hard to see, but up here and the back side of the grills too, after epoxy primer

And going back together. I actually had the rear lid on and off a dozen times to be sure the body lines met acceptably

details

I hate it when you see a nice car with spots of primer and junk through the vents. Not this one

So, back in the saddle, waiting on a few last measurements
SD
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[esde]

So, after getting some measurements back from Mika and VW Jimbo, and getting to the shop where I had this 57 ragtop stashed for even more measurements, I had enough info to start

I'll start by saying that these old cars are certainly not precisely fitted. I trust that Mika can measure the parts accurately, as reproducing it is what he does so well. He gave me some dimensions from a virgin, never crashed or off the pan 51 he has, plus the drawings of the factory jig. Several other people generously gave me measurements, which by the way are all different (but all pre 58 cars). Some were off by as much as 25mm, which could be accident damage or whatever else over the course of 60+ years. My 57 engine bay was 10-15mm narrower than the dimensions Mika gave me, though it doesn't appear to have been hit. Anyway, with such a wide range of volunteered specs, I figured that I'd do my best to meet what Mika gave me, and not sweat it if I was off, as many seem to have some variance.
First step, just experimenting to see what would move how much

These side engine shelf parts don't really fit well till you horse them in like this

Started setting things with self tapping screws as the cleko pins were not holding the force of the hydraulic cylinder

After I was confident it was going to work, take it all back apart, again for the hundredth time. Cleaned up the inside edge curve of the apron a bit, and prep where the welds will land

I started by fitting the apron where it meets the rear quarters, and welding where the flange wraps the fender mounting bolts. But, this is important, don't weld the inner part that holds the seal channel yet.
Then I carefully installed the side shelves where they had been, which is easy as it's just lining up the screw holes from before..
At this point I welded the front firewall piece that goes across above the transmission, and then did the side shelves welding from the front of the car to the back. But I left the last 1.5" of each shelf un welded
Then I used the ram to spread both side shelves to see what happened when I got to the factory 733mm

I could see that spreading the sides made the apron want to move in, which I didn't want, so change of tactic. Made a brace to maintain the 733mm

Moved the brace to the the rear, which meant spreading them out about 25mm with the ram. Then I used my best farmer bodged bailing wire and wood block tactics to hold the cylinder between the transmission and apron

Remember I left the end of the engine shelf parts loose, and the inside apron also? Now, when I used the ram to move the rear seal channel back to where it was supposed to be, I was able to clamp and weld the self and apron, and place a tack where they meet. I figured the apron would spring back some, so I pushed it out 10mm farther than it was supposed to go, and welded everything.
After I got the dummy engine in, I was pretty pleased. Both sides fit ok, though the trays do move "in" some at the rear. I'll prob just leave it. The rear tin fits, but I think I can make it better
Left tray

Right tray

Apron to tin clearance from underneath

little tight in the left side

So, certainly not perfect but I'm happy with it. Of course I ran out of welding gas when I was almost finished..
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[VW_Jimbo]

You gotta have the decklid on there, too! Getting those dimensions is not that hard. Getting those dimensions and making the decklid lay correctly, and latch correctly is what killed my dimensions.

I had to reduce the engine opening so that the decklid covered the engine bay 100%. I had to pull the apron a hair higher to get the latch to interact properly.

Before getting too far with welding. Check how the decklid lays on the car. You also need to check on how the body line looks across the rear end with the fenders on.

It took me several days of loosening, pushing, tightening, loosening, pulling, tightening, removing, beating with a hammer, reinstalling, more pushing, more pulling….. You get my point. Check out the body lines with the other panels.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[esde]

I had the lid and hinges bolted on at the beginning, but stood up into one of the hinge mounts and put a decent gash in my head. So off they came. I did hold the lid up many times to make sure the alignment was good. Of course now I'm nervous, so I'll get the lid bolted up asap today. And, my apron doesn't have a catch, so I wasn't concerned about that. I was just going for an even reveal and laying flat.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[VW_Jimbo]

[esde]

The ass end of the car is on hold while I replace the gas solenoid in my mig welder, which is why I was using gas so quickly. So.. I dug into the steering box. The one thats on the car is notchy feeling, and I had another early box stashed away. Bead blasted the outside and then opened it up
Yuck

Cleaning this mess was terrible. Many towels and gloves later.

New upper and lower seals from Wolfsburg West. I also had one new shaft bearing that I didn't use. My bearings were actually perfect and the box had very little wear.

Very easy to R&R. Cleaning it is definitely the hardest part.

This one shows box 111 415 111
Interestingly, then I pulled the box out of the car, the one that spins sort of roughly, it's a bit different. A quick search here didn't provide any clues
It's got two large washers jammed on around the sector shaft, haven't pulled them yet, and the casting bump is shallower where the screwdriver is pointing

But most strange is the lack of a traditional VW part number
Instead it has this, Looks to be W&L 47018

Input shaft and sector shaft look the same as the other box, wondering if anyone knows more about this?
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.