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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9654
Location: Pearl River, NY
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| Quote: |
| Windshield has to come out i assume? |
It does not "have to". 34 years ago I had my '64 Ghia Cabrio repainted in its original color (L87 Pearl White) by a family friend's VW dealer in PA. They kept the WS installed. I don't know if they applied the "trick" to place vinyl-coated electrical wire behind the edge of the rubber all around the WS to lift it off the body so that masking tape can be applied to the rubber edge... but there was nearly no overspray on the original rubber. The very small bits (maybe an inch) I was able to clean off with either acetone or some type of auto paint thinner.
My Ghia's interior was also in very good shape as to its factory original color, so they did not need to paint the doors nor dash. Did not paint the underside of the hood and engine lid, nor any work in the trunk.
I have to replace the driver's door hinges since the door sags considerably. I bought new repro hinges from KGP&R a few years ago but they are unpainted. A good auto supply store which also carries automotive paint mixed me a spray can of U-Pol in the L87 color so that I can spray the hinges. You could try to have a spray can or two of your body color mixed so that you could do minor touch-ups in the interior or other hidden areas. |
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obus 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| VeloMikey wrote: |
| obus wrote: |
| Got a rough quote of 8k to have body work finished off and painted and pan cleaned and painted. Was going to leave interior painted surfaces untouched as they are in really good shape other than the floor pans in and out. Putting back together i was going to do outside of the wiring and most of the mechanical stuff. Chrome trim, seats, interior panels, lights etc i was going to take a stab at |
Go look at my build thread. $20k for labor, $3k for paint materials and I pay for all the metal patch panels TBD. These are California prices where you can make $20 an hour at McDonalds. FYI all the quotes I got were $78 to $85 a hour plus materials. $85 was Colorado labor rate. This is an expensive "hobby"! |
I believe it. Thats why i am going to try to put it all back by myself and maybe a few Friends who i will pay accordingly. I just want to do it right as i am not in a big hurry at all to get it done after the body and paint are done. Im accumulating parts and such in the meantime. Still have to figure out what chrome to send out, order the wiring harness and order the fresh carpet
_________________
July 1959 Mango Standard Bus aka Obus L346 L347 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256592&highlight=
June 1973 Pumpkin Orange Thing aka Othing L30H
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711775&highlight=
1960 Paprika Red Karmann Ghia Convertible aka Schatze L452 built 5/20/60
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
66 21 window bus built 8/31/65 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=777273 |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Windshield has to come out i assume? |
It does not "have to". 34 years ago I had my '64 Ghia Cabrio repainted in its original color (L87 Pearl White) by a family friend's VW dealer in PA. They kept the WS installed. I don't know if they applied the "trick" to place vinyl-coated electrical wire behind the edge of the rubber all around the WS to lift it off the body so that masking tape can be applied to the rubber edge... but there was nearly no overspray on the original rubber. The very small bits (maybe an inch) I was able to clean off with either acetone or some type of auto paint thinner.
My Ghia's interior was also in very good shape as to its factory original color, so they did not need to paint the doors nor dash. Did not paint the underside of the hood and engine lid, nor any work in the trunk.
I have to replace the driver's door hinges since the door sags considerably. I bought new repro hinges from KGP&R a few years ago but they are unpainted. A good auto supply store which also carries automotive paint mixed me a spray can of U-Pol in the L87 color so that I can spray the hinges. You could try to have a spray can or two of your body color mixed so that you could do minor touch-ups in the interior or other hidden areas. |
Good to know Rome. Thanks again
_________________
July 1959 Mango Standard Bus aka Obus L346 L347 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256592&highlight=
June 1973 Pumpkin Orange Thing aka Othing L30H
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711775&highlight=
1960 Paprika Red Karmann Ghia Convertible aka Schatze L452 built 5/20/60
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
66 21 window bus built 8/31/65 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=777273 |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| obus wrote: |
| The nerves are acting up. I have to meet up with the body shop owner in the next week or so and i have so many questions since i have never done something this involved before. Ami having them put the body back on the pan? I plan on getting a whole new wiring harness and i know they dont do that. I can do that if the body is on the pan i assume? Do i give him a spare set of 5 wheel sand have him paint the correct wheels the proper color(s)? Does the whole top assembly need to come off? I think i want only the exterior of the frunk and decklid painted i assume? Windshield has to come out i assume? Do they do it or do i? Ugh. This is going to keep me up at night |
Here’s my advice.
Set a budget. Tell him how much you have to spend and then see what he can do for the amount. It’s better to have a shop do a little very well then a lot poorly. And believe me they will do a lot poorly if your budget is low.
Restoration work is labor intense. The most mundane tasks like installing door seals and rubber will take hours and they will bill every hour they spend on the car.
Look at the receipts sellers on BAT posts to give yourself a realistic idea of the cost involved.
How handy are you? Can you disassemble the car yourself and more important put it back together? Can you spend your budget on tasks out of your league, like metal work and paint and body? Again, paint and body are very labor intensive but so is putting a car back together again. It’s double the hours.
Have the whole car painted, in and out.
Just some random thoughts from someone who has restored a few Ghias. |
On here and on BaT i always respect your knowledge and experience. Thanks for the advice
_________________
July 1959 Mango Standard Bus aka Obus L346 L347 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256592&highlight=
June 1973 Pumpkin Orange Thing aka Othing L30H
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711775&highlight=
1960 Paprika Red Karmann Ghia Convertible aka Schatze L452 built 5/20/60
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
66 21 window bus built 8/31/65 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=777273 |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| obus wrote: |
| And see this is why i think just doing the basic body work and paint required is the way to go. I can come on here and find out where to get the best carpet, dash, rubber seals etc. A body shop may not be willing to take time and may just order whatever is cheap. Thats not my style. So i will be on here asking for advice, suggestions, and motivation once it gets done and gets back here for reassembly. |
Excellent plan…and a lot more fun and you will do it right vs a shop which might cut corners.
Looking forward to seeing pictures of the progress, make sure to post!
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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rbsurfguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008
Posts: 1757
Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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Just be sure to tell them to NOT fill areas they think they need to fill like the lines at the rocker panels, torsion hole, door chrome holes, unless you want them filled. I took mine to a shop that restores classic cars with all the bodywork done, by previous VW resto shop, which they commented was done very well. I already had the chrome trim holes welded up since I didn't want any, and I had the torsion covers for them to paint, so no filler there! They painted the entire car inside and out, doors, hood, decklid, and truck bed liner under the entire body for a $1000 over your estimate, so not a bad price you got. Hope it goes well, look forward to seeing you build it back!
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9654
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| Quote: |
| My only doubt is the outside mirrors. Not sure i want fender mounted swan ones. Not sure i like the ones on it now either but may use them anyway |
Per c21darrel's response, I also think that the stock swan-neck mirror near the rear of the front fender looks best on a classic Ghia. BUT- the mirrors you now have brings the mirror surface at least a foot closer to your eyes so that objects behind you are viewed better. I'd imagine that the total mirror area is also (slightly) larger than the swan necks'. Bonus is that you already have a matching mirror on the right door which appears to position the mirror glass at a useful height so that it is usable to reduce your blind spot created by the rear quarter of the top.
Have you tried to polish up the current mirrors so that they'll look OK on your freshly painted doors?
If you would remove those round mirrors and mount stock swan-necks there, the driver's door mirror will look good- I did that on my '64. A swan-neck would likely also be at a useful height on the passenger door for rearward vision. If you position a swan-neck onto the driver's fender in the original location per measurements found here on tS, the mirror will also provide a useful field of view. But if you want to mount a swan mirror at the passenger's fender to make a balanced appearance to the driver's mirror, its field of vision will be blocked by the A-pillar.
Porsche 356 swan mirrors would also be a suitable alternative to Ghia swan mirrors for the door locations; they look quite similar though I think the prices may be higher for the 356's as most parts are. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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If that is original paint then it looks like yet another example of a later Ghia without the usual mirror. If they appear original to the car I’d keep them as they are part of the cars history.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9654
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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10 minutes spent with chrome polish will make a major improvement on each mirror. The pitting on the base to the left of the rear mounting screw won't be removed, since the chrome and the base metal have developed minor "craters". But the surrounding chrome will be brightened. The stem's tiny spots probably won't be improved but once again, the surrounding chrome will. The mirror round housing itself will come out very good. If that housing is aluminum, you can polish with the finer polish listed below to make it shine line chrome. My experience with polishing chrome is to start with either 0000 steel wool or a conventional chrome polish together with either a cotton T-shirt remnant or microfiber. Then go to a finer polish such as Autosol or Simichrome. Even Nevr-Dull wadding. Rub off all polish with the microfiber.
Same technique for bumper parts.
If you have a header and/or high-flow muffler which have been aluminized or silver ceramic coated, the Nevr-Dull works very well to remove discoloration. It won't scour the coating. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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I have Buick mirrors on my 56. Early cars had no mirrors and so people either went without or used what was available. In the US it wasn’t uncommon for US car mirrors to be used.
I know that conventional knowledge is that mirrors became standard starting with 58 models, but I’ve seen plenty of cars up to 1961 that are original paint and yet do not have the usual mirrors.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| obus wrote: |
| tomorrow morning i am riding up to speak to the owner of the body shop to go over any questions i may have. So tonight i have to put some questions together. Any other pre-paint suggestions/advice feel free to throw it at me now please. Getting nervous...... |
I would ask him to dig out any old bodywork and take it down to metal.
I would also expect that the estimate will not reflect the actual costs once they start digging into it.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Paprika Red Ghia in New Jersey "Schatze" |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| obus wrote: |
| tomorrow morning i am riding up to speak to the owner of the body shop to go over any questions i may have. So tonight i have to put some questions together. Any other pre-paint suggestions/advice feel free to throw it at me now please. Getting nervous...... |
I would ask him to dig out any old bodywork and take it down to metal.
I would also expect that the estimate will not reflect the actual costs once they start digging into it. |
I think the rockers and rear quarters were done ok. I think the nose under the headlights is a hot mess and the area by the torsion bar covers is eh? And yes i bet that estimate is on the low side as well. Is there any benefit to using por 15 or bedliner on either or both side of the pans? I would rather just do straight up paint. I dont plan on driving in poor weather and im 54 with no kids. My nieces i am sure will sell all my VWs off when i croak and arent going to give a hoot if i por 15'd it
_________________
July 1959 Mango Standard Bus aka Obus L346 L347 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256592&highlight=
June 1973 Pumpkin Orange Thing aka Othing L30H
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711775&highlight=
1960 Paprika Red Karmann Ghia Convertible aka Schatze L452 built 5/20/60
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
66 21 window bus built 8/31/65 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=777273 |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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