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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:09 pm Post subject: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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My fastback should be out of paint in mid January. While I'm waiting I'm thinking about engine options. Even more dangerous, I'm asking for ideas on thesamba.
God help me.
I currently have the 1776 I was running in my daily-driver squareback until 2016. It's fitted with an ISP OOT exhaust, stock heat-exchangers and I've adapted a stock FI intake from the old 68 squareback to use modern injectors. It's very smooth and a great cruiser but the stock intake and exhaust limit power to not much above stock. This engine is sorted and fresh and the default option for this car.
I also have a 2110 configured as a type-1 for my Karmann Ghia that is still just a long-block. It's all new but unfinished and not yet run. So now I'm thinking about pulling the 2110 out of the KG and using it in the fastback.
What I need is an intake and exhaust that would support 100-130 HP in the type-3.
The stock type-3 cooling system will be retained. No upright engine in a type-3 car for me.
The car will stay FI/megasquirt. I've put a lot of time into learning that system and very much like it. The intake must remain low-profile to fit under the engine cover.
For the exhaust I'm prepared to make my own type-3 heat exchangers if necessary. This car requires heat. What is available for a performance type-3 exhaust?
So ... ideas?
Max |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22461 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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Vintage Speed. Thats it. Anything else is crude and or pushing back to stock.
Having a stock muffler on a performance motor is not bad. Just not as crisp. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Jason37 Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004 Posts: 1028
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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If money was no object, CSP makes performance heat exchangers and a python muffler that will support some serious power. As for intake, I would look at buying some mandrel bends (Columbia River mandrel bending) and make my own runners and mate them to a newer style throttle body. |
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vwfye Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2000 Posts: 7661
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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1.5 header and I build my own 2 inch turbo muffler set up. I think the muffler, flange and 90 pipe was 40 bucks all in, new. _________________ 64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
1980s Sand Dragster "The Plunger"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3" |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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I bought the VS stainless exhaust for my KG. It looks great but it seems quite heavy. Read a little about people having them crack at the welds. Might be worth trying to fab some additional support so all that weight isn't hanging from the heads.
The CSP Python looks nice in the ad ... heat exchangers too.
jason37 wrote: |
I would look at buying some mandrel bends (Columbia River mandrel bending) and make my own runners and mate them to a newer style throttle body. |
Thought of this. Maybe start with a stock FI flange to hold the injectors and replace the runners? What would you recommend for the ID? And I'm guessing there's a bit of science behind the plenum volume, right?
Max |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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vwfye wrote: |
1.5 header and I build my own 2 inch turbo muffler set up. I think the muffler, flange and 90 pipe was 40 bucks all in, new. |
Details? I might give that a try.
Max |
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vwfye Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2000 Posts: 7661
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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_________________ 64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
1980s Sand Dragster "The Plunger"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3" |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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What did you use for the header?
Max |
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4921 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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does A1 do a type 3 sidewinder? that would be nice on a 2110cc
We have one on the wifes 2110cc on her 73 super
the Vintage speed sport muffler has been on my square for several years now, it's solid, but I don't think its heavy compared to the stock exhaust, maybe compared to an EMPI tin can exhaust, or the OTT but the quality difference is Big.
the 38mm J tubes from vintage speed are an easy fit inside the stock heat exchangers
vintage speed VS OTT
_________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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I have a CSP Python with a 1904 - it's expensive but, IMO, well worth it. The only thing I had to do was come up with a bracket to mount the oil filter/thermostat bracket. The exhaust pipe exits the right place on the rear apron and the pipe is the correct length so it doesn't heat up the rear bumper.
The VS exhaust didn't fit my car for some reason. I tried to fit two of them and neither one fit in the apron cutout and the exhaust pipe was just the right length to heat up my rear bumper (too short).
Last edited by ataraxia on Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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W1K1 wrote: |
the 38mm J tubes from vintage speed are an easy fit inside the stock heat exchangers |
Is the steel-wool just wound around the tube? How good is the heat from those?
Max |
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4921 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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Quote: |
Is the steel-wool just wound around the tube? How good is the heat from those? |
Stainless scrubbers from the dollar store, just stretch it out and slip it over. The heat is good, I just don’t have enough air speed, maybe I’ll try a bilge blower on one to see come spring _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Jason37 Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004 Posts: 1028
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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I think STF might be the ticket for runner diameter and plenum sizing. Or you could always go to some IDF throttle bodies. |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Cptn. Calzone Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007 Posts: 1855 Location: S>E>Alabama
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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CSP makes some quality products or rather sells them ... _________________ 71 westfalia
67 912 Porsche Quintilla
67 Single Cab aka my work horse |
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Cptn. Calzone Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007 Posts: 1855 Location: S>E>Alabama
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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A1 does make a nice header for a t3 ..havent fitted it as of yet however the finish is stainless steel and nice welds _________________ 71 westfalia
67 912 Porsche Quintilla
67 Single Cab aka my work horse |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9653 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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Hi, Max; good to see you here again and still active with your VWs. Thinking out loud for heater boxes: CB Performance now sells a Type 1 performance 1 5/8" HB with full aluminum internal heat fins. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3682.htm You could do a reality check by placing an old Type 1 HB next to a Type 3 HB so that you could see the differences in length and design. Thought is, if the outer metal SHELL together with the heat flaps at the forward end could be removed from both HB by uncrimping the joints and transferred over, then you could use a Type 3 HB shell on the CB Type 1 hi-po HB. Might need to extend the rear outlet pipe somewhat, but you are good with the welder. |
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Jason37 Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004 Posts: 1028
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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W1K1 wrote: |
Quote: |
Is the steel-wool just wound around the tube? How good is the heat from those? |
Stainless scrubbers from the dollar store, just stretch it out and slip it over. The heat is good, I just don’t have enough air speed, maybe I’ll try a bilge blower on one to see come spring |
I wonder if you removed some of them, the air flow would increase. Seems like it would be a fine balance between heat and flow. |
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Cptn. Calzone Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007 Posts: 1855 Location: S>E>Alabama
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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I did the bilge pump pop on my bus it's noisy very noisy it does move some air there's probably some now that are much quieter _________________ 71 westfalia
67 912 Porsche Quintilla
67 Single Cab aka my work horse |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Performance intake and exhaust? |
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Rome wrote: |
Hi, Max; good to see you here again and still active with your VWs. Thinking out loud for heater boxes: CB Performance now sells a Type 1 performance 1 5/8" HB with full aluminum internal heat fins. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3682.htm You could do a reality check by placing an old Type 1 HB next to a Type 3 HB so that you could see the differences in length and design. Thought is, if the outer metal SHELL together with the heat flaps at the forward end could be removed from both HB by uncrimping the joints and transferred over, then you could use a Type 3 HB shell on the CB Type 1 hi-po HB. Might need to extend the rear outlet pipe somewhat, but you are good with the welder. |
Having modified a set of T-1 HB's for a T-3, they are about 3 inches too short (tins). This means you need to extend the tubing about 5 inches to get it outside of the HB tin. Just a heads up. It does sound like a good plan, but I don't know if I'd want an exhaust pipe seam inside the HB in a daily driver car. Even still, you know the aluminum heat sink material will be short, due to the t-1 length. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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