Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Advice needed on vehicle history.
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Finzdubz
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2020
Posts: 3
Location: West Midlands
Finzdubz is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:49 am    Post subject: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Hello, this is my first post. I purchased an imported Baywindow a few months ago. I'm currently striping it all down to be resprayed but have found some discrepancies. I have done research on it but I am still in the dark.

So behind the drivers seat is an aftermarket vin plate. This plate matches the logbook and that stamped into the engine bay (the plate in the engine bay is missing).

Alongside the Vin plate, behind the seat, there is an code plate screwed in. According to the data on the mcode plate, the bus was originally blue. This makes no sense as inside the panels its green.

Now, I have found another mcode plate behind the dash. according to this plate, my bus was originally a green westy. The green makes sense as it does look as if it was originally green. However, there is no pop top. The m code decoder has given me a chassis number that doesn't match up with the vin number.

My theory is that the bus was a westy but the roof has been removed and replaced with a tin top. The roof, underneath the hand paint appears to be yellow on the outside but green inside?

I know everyone will say its my own fault for not checking, and it is. However, I already have it so not much can be done. My aim is to restore it as a westy based on the mcode plate.

Bus:
orange/white handpaint
Vin in engine bay 2192121911
m code plate vin (behind seat) : 2372117299
m code behind dash vin:2382124996

cheers,
finley

Edit: Found the mcode plate under the dash. Says itís a westy. Original paint behind panels confirms this. Removed the headliner and seen the welds. Itís had a tin top roof fitted and the floor of the engine bay changed I presume. Vin in engine compartment suggests it is a 79 panel van. But it was actually a 78 westy. I would like to restore it back to a westy my only concern being that obviously the vin suggests that it is not a westy but the m code plate says otherwise. Is it possible to get a new bit stamped to match the mcode plate or is that something thatís not possible?

It doesnít really bother me as I know the bus has bound to have repairs but Iím just thinking if the serial number states it is a westy it will look better should I come to sell ?


Last edited by Finzdubz on Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16223
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

You need a solicitor first. You might not even own this vehicle, so donít put money into it yet. The Blake who sold it to you might be in a world of trouble
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pioneer1
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2008
Posts: 2023
Location: Ontario Canada
pioneer1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Sounds more like someone switched the mplate and vin plate belonging to a different bus
_________________
"Always waiting for tomorrow ruined everything"

'85 Porsche 911 Targa

'76 Westfalia project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JimmieH Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 227
Location: Canterbury, NH
JimmieH is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

You have quite a mystery. Some pictures might help us narrow it down for you. There's a few more places to look for a VIN. Is there a plate on the dashboard or a sticker in the door jamb?

You said imported bus. What do you mean by that?
_________________
1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
deepcflea Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Lompoc, CA
deepcflea is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Definitely some shenanigans going on here. IMHO... if someone did manipulate the M-code/VIN plates, the one they might not have thought of to manipulate cause it is somewhat out of sight, would be the one under the dash. Post pics of all the M-code plates and someone smarter than me here may be able to tell you what to check for as far as M-code options and do some deductive reasoning on which one "is" correct based on what the bus has installed. Also, unless someone did a complete teardown and repaint, there has to be some evidence of the original paint color somewhere.
_________________
1978 Bay Window Double Cab (1600cc) - Marilyn
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...005b041ddd

Formerly owned VW's
1983 Westfalia
1956 Oval Ragtop
1967 Bug
1970 Ghia
1969 Buggy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cmonSTART Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 1640
Location: NH
cmonSTART is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

deepcflea wrote:
Definitely some shenanigans going on here. IMHO... if someone did manipulate the M-code/VIN plates, the one they might not have thought of to manipulate cause it is somewhat out of sight, would be the one under the dash. Post pics of all the M-code plates and someone smarter than me here may be able to tell you what to check for as far as M-code options and do some deductive reasoning on which one "is" correct based on what the bus has installed. Also, unless someone did a complete teardown and repaint, there has to be some evidence of the original paint color somewhere.


That's how they found the Pulp Fiction car after it was stolen. They forgot to strip one of the hidden VINs.
_________________
'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HoboBus
Samba Member


Joined: December 29, 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Massachusetts
HoboBus is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Do you have proper paperwork to actually be able to register and drive this bus (using whichever VIN you have) in your country? That's the big question.

Otherwise, it's all just a fun story.

Sounds like you've got a Franken-bus. Built from who knows how many parts busses.

I believe 3rd VIN digit is the year, so you've got different years.

Good luck,
Hobo
_________________
Salt air it ain't thin, it'll stick right to your skin,
it'll make you feel fine. Makes you feel fine.
And I wanna be there. -- Jimmy Buffett

Just a beach-oriented camping Hobo with a bus.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 45128

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

What kind of engine do you have and what is the engine code?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 35398
Location: Retired so can be anywhere now - NorCal
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

If you have a 1971 or earlier this should be the tag and vin stamp arrangement you have. There will likely also be a vin on the top of the dash, and a M-code under the dash on the air box tubes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
American Standard Snorkeling Terrier
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mikedjames
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2012
Posts: 1634
Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
mikedjames is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Somebody has welded bits of two buses together.

There is a rolling 40 year old historic vehicle no MOT inspection/ zero road tax rule in the UK.
So for a time from when the rule was introduced, up until 40 years after 1979, it was attractive to make a bus seem older than it really was.
So the aim of these people was that the earlier VIN plate presented on the ownership documentation would match the stamped one in the engine bay which is what it seems our inspectors checked.

Now that 2019 has passed, there is now no point in doing this with any Bay Window, as all of them can be registered as historic in the UK and pay no road tax and require no MOT inspection.

In general, provided the VIN in the engine bay matches the V5, I dont think anybody in officialdom really cares any more. Nobody checks engine numbers. If you never have an MOT, then nobody will look at all.
_________________
Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine: 16k miles to date.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
alman72
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2014
Posts: 2335
Location: MICHIGAN
alman72 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

i thought there were tintop westies, meaning no roof hole...
another place to look is the sticker on the door jamb of drivers door. Prob removed, but maybe just painted over.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MorkC68
Samba Member


Joined: December 23, 2015
Posts: 502
Location: Nottingham, England
MorkC68 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

If you need any advice from guys here in the UK, have a wander over to www.thelatebay.com.

The guys here on the samba are great, 100%, there are guys on TLB local who may be able to give you a second opinion.

Between the two forums, there is a wealth of knowledge and expertise in abundence!
_________________
Gusbus; 1973 Kombi
Major; 1977 Westfalia Campmobile

My blog: https://twolatebays.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Finzdubz
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2020
Posts: 3
Location: West Midlands
Finzdubz is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Bus has v5 , tax and insurance. This is under the stamped vin in the engine bay as apposed to the actual one. Iím wondering if there is a way to actually use the original one as it was actually a pop top westy which I would like to restore it back to.

I imagine itís probably not possible. I donít intend to sell for a while but I want to make it back into a westfalia. I also imagine Down the line, when it comes to selling the bus. The difference in price wouldnít be that affected ?

A 40 year old bus is bound to have some repairs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16223
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

You are good to go. The stamped VIN is the one that can't be changed so if that's on the paperwork it's good

Don't worry about originality and all that crap , some people live to tell you your ruining the value for something out of spite.

There is always a good market for a reasonably kitted Westy, original or conversion.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Finzdubz
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2020
Posts: 3
Location: West Midlands
Finzdubz is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
You are good to go. The stamped VIN is the one that can't be changed so if that's on the paperwork it's good

Don't worry about originality and all that crap , some people live to tell you your ruining the value for something out of spite.

There is always a good market for a reasonably kitted Westy, original or conversion.


I thought as much. I shall restore her to her former glory. For the paper work I shall just print off the mcode results from the original plate. Now time to get her welded, painted and get the pop top and interior back.

Thank you all for your help and advice!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB