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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4771
Location: Bemidji, MN
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 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: electric motor rewinding |
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this is one of those rabbit holes i find myself in....
acquired an old Ebersparcher D2L from a Samba member (thank you!!).. one of the old style, underfloor beheamoths that the Airtronic series replaced. not working, electric motor dead. unobtainium of course. one brush resistor, part of a back EMF braking feature nears i can tell, was burned out. but THAT burned because the armature windings have internal shorts after going thru checking the coil resistance at spots 180 degrees apart on the commutator. THAT was likely caused rusted bearings in the fan housing causing high current draw.
so. i could abandon this project, get an eBay china motor for a different heater and hope things line up, buy a $130 complete clone kit of the Airtop, or drill into this and fix it. never rewound a motor before so why not?
28 gauge magnet wire is on order but the UNwinding has begun. the wires are held to the commutator bars by simple copper tabs that are folded over. they lift up with a sharp knife under them. winding pattern must be kept track of exactly. label everything, write it down, take pictures. we'll see!!
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2319
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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Now that's a proper repair.  
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4771
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Eberspacher motor rewinding |
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thing is, beyond a certain diagnostic point, it ain't electricity. it's Arts and Crafts that someone that can macrame a plant hanger might have a better run at it than i.
anyway. a fun throw away of time.
what i REALLY want to come across is an article describing how much more wonderful these old versions were to the new Airtop series. alas, time might have marched forth with improvements.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10367
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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Oh, my. 
That is cool though.
Take video of the last few unwinds at each winding?
(edit: I zoomed in and better see how the windings are laid out)
"Reassembly is the reverse sequence to removal" 
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7754
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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I love how some of you guys are crazier than me...
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16860
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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having see armatures wound in person once, i think you're crazy
Link
you either have the patients of a saint, or will be a raging alcoholic after this
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spitsnrovers
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 924
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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I a past life I worked at an electrics shop as a motor winder's helper.
Taking wires out, counting turns, micrometer measuring wire diameter, building formers to wind new coils on, win ding coils while counting turns, etc, etc.
That meant doing just as you are doing. But you won't have to make formers to wind the coils - just measure the diameter of the wire (without lacquer enamel), and measure the length. Then wind it back into the slots - presumably protected by the paper sleeve inserts.
You're certainly going about in a methodical manner. Congrats.
And, there isn't a motor repair shop around (that I could find) that will rewind a small motor as you have.
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'88 VW Westfalia
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Yellow Rabbit
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2005
Posts: 1146
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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alaskadan
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1857
Location: anchor pt. alaska
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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| Thats cool. Reminds me of my glass shop days. When an edger or beveler motor would go down I'd take them to a guy who rewound them for us. He did BIG motors compared to our puny little 5 to 10 hp motors as well. Like for elevators and such.Cooked them in a kiln out back to burn off the varnish. Specialty trade for sure anymore. He sells real-estate now. |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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What...you never built a ship model as a kid?
You know the ones where they gave you all the pieces of the motor and you had to build the motor.
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4771
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:46 am Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
What...you never built a ship model as a kid?
You know the ones where they gave you all the pieces of the motor and you had to build the motor. |
oh, yeeeeaaaah. forgot about those. never got mine to work <Gulp>!
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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thatbaldwinlife
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2011
Posts: 777
Location: Out exploring
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:32 am Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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Impressive that you are willing to take this on versus buying something else. This is what more people in the world need to do to reduce the consumption and "throw away" society.
nate
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1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4771
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Oh, my.
That is cool though.
Take video of the last few unwinds at each winding?
(edit: I zoomed in and better see how the windings are laid out)
"Reassembly is the reverse sequence to removal" |
i kinda freaked out about that too... but it's very sequential and my chart helps. i'll photo/video the very last few turns because getting it started correctly will be the entire key. what's interesting is that it is one continuous piece of wire but electrically 7 different coils as it makes electrical contact thru the commutator bars. other motors spot weld the copper onto the commutator, fortunately this is just tabbed.
i can't believe the minds that came up with this stuff... brilliant people out there thru the times.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10367
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Take video of the last few unwinds at each winding?
(edit: I zoomed in and better see how the windings are laid out) |
.... what's interesting is that it is one continuous piece of wire but electrically 7 different coils as it makes electrical contact thru the commutator bars. other motors spot weld the copper onto the commutator, fortunately this is just tabbed.
i can't believe the minds that came up with this stuff... brilliant people out there thru the times. |
It is pretty amazing really. But much like something like assembler or machine language at low (lowest?) levels of computer parts, motor windings aren't something younger generations think about, much, I'd guess. (not that I know anything about that computer stuff but a friend, who is really quite brilliant, told me about it back in 1981)
Yeah the "lay of the land" in how each coil sits over the other was what I was seeing as a potential problem spot(s) in re assembly.
Oh I see now. One piece of wire that hooks around each tab. Neat! Very clever.
So the wire is enamel coated?
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4771
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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well... a success! the motor Chooches! wound it with 28 ga. Polyamideimide-Coated Copper Magnet Wire from Remington Industries. it was slightly thicker than the OEM, which was probably 29ga and a thinner insulation. filled the armature valleys up pretty good, realized i should have been winding a bit tighter after the 3rd winding but i made it. but the motor spins, has low current draw, starts up at low voltage. everything says success so far!
waiting for the winding varnish to dry now.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32576
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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Friggin Awesome! Some things have their own value. I'm currently hand lapping the valves on another vehicle with lapping compound from 1909 in an antique and very cool metal container. Coulda used new stuff but I like tradition and doing things like you clearly do as well - the old fashioned way. A nod in your direction, sir!!
Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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chompy
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2014
Posts: 400
Location: Cascade Locks
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: electric motor rewinding |
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Skookum! Let us know how it keeps up!
Edit: friggin autocorrect!
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'81 Westfalia Subaru EJ22
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ALIKA T3
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