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zoti Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 2061 Location: Plano, TX USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:10 pm Post subject: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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I’m working with a friend on an alternative to the Idle Stabilizer Control Unit.
Basically a modern alternative that will do the same but will be made with modern electronics, reliable and will not break. Plus you’ll be able to do some tuning and read info from it to help diagnose the so common idle issues.
What I wanted to know is if there will be interest in such unit from van owners.
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livethevanlife Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 204 Location: La Paz, Baja California Sur
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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Absolutely, long live the WBX! Price it the same or less than the used ones if you can and ill happily switch mine out preemptively. One less thing to worry about. _________________ www.LiveTheVanLife.com
www.VentureLibre.com
https://www.PeaceVans.com/baja
1991 Syncro Triple Knob Westfalia "Miki" 2.2WBX
1992 Syncro Triple Knob Tintop "Schnitzel" 1.9AAZ
1990 Syncro Rear Locker Doka Subi 2.2
1974 VW Thing 1835cc
1989 VW Carat |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6832 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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Good on you. Placing my order now! 😁 _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dart330 Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004 Posts: 454 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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_________________ Driving a 90 Carat since 2014
Previous Buses: 59 Westy, 60 Westy, 74 Bus, 82 Westy, 85 Westy, 87 Syncro
Checkout my Syncro Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JSWhLS7jLY |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4351 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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Yaaaaaa!! Oh... And how about the ECU, too? _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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zoti Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 2061 Location: Plano, TX USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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bobbyblack wrote: |
Yaaaaaa!! Oh... And how about the ECU, too? |
That’s going to be very hard without knowing all the parameters it was designed around. |
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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Hardware cost of roughly $35. The parameters shouldn't be that difficult to discern. With tuneability via BLE it would be a winner. _________________ Schau in das Buch |
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Aryana Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2015 Posts: 568 Location: Southern CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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I'm on my 2nd rebuilt Idle Stabilizer Control Unit from Van Cafe. It's verified broken again by swapping out with a known good one from another van.
Instead of trying my luck with #3, I've just left it unplugged.
Count me in on this if you make something available. I have 4 other van friends that would probably buy as well if I told them to support the community and buy spares to keep on hand.
The Shoebox Electronix diagnostic box doesn't give any connectivity to the ICU, which I always wished it did/could. I'm interested to see what you'll provide in terms of an interface.
Being able to tweak the parameters would be a dream! Ultimately changing what the ICV is told to do would be really cool. I always felt mine idled higher than it should based on the I/O logic built into the ICU's I've tried. |
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2561 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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i've had a hard look at the module and while not terrible, i bet the bulk of the functionality can now be handled by a single PIC. since it only looks for voltages and resistive loads, the "hard" part is parsing the input data to apply the proper "logic" to produce the appropriate PWM signal to the ICV. the PIC simulation software should make quick work of sorting out the input data to provide good idle across a range of input data.
since the input values are known across the range (thanks Protraining Manual!) this should be a quick development period
let me know when you need a beta tester. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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Price it at 3-5x the used ones to get the #vanlife wankers off the roads _________________ .ssS! |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4790 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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when the time comes... i'll take any of the dead cores. they're dirt simple to rebuild.
i don't fault folks for wanting a perfectly functioning idle system. but there's a measure of tilting at windmills because the WBX system works pretty darn well without any of the doobley-doo of an idle control system at all. in fact, i rather like being able to set idle speed exactly where i want with a turn of the throttle body screw without some nefarious buzzing device defeating me. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2561 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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DanHoug wrote: |
in fact, i rather like being able to set idle speed exactly where i want with a turn of the throttle body screw without some nefarious buzzing device defeating me. |
do you have to change the idle speed with the outside air temp? _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4790 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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dabaron wrote: |
do you have to change the idle speed with the outside air temp? |
well, not once it warms up! i'm an old fart and grew up with having to stay in the cab, revving the engine and feathering the choke until it would run on its own so a fuel injected engine that adjusts the mixture after a couple minutes seems like duck soup.
i've driven P.O.S. cars all my life. cars that needed babying when cold, rusty bimetal spring choke pull offs, SU carbs that needed mixture adjustment every 40 degrees F, so my bar is low. but on the other hand, i like the direct control eliminating the idle system on the vanagon provides. i've got no problem with an 1100 rpm idle speed as it gives good idle oil pressure, keeps coolant flowing, makes for mindless clutch engagement, and can accomodate AC and PS kick in without all the hoopla of the ICV system. these ain't Honda Civics with their mind numbing banality... _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Aryana Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2015 Posts: 568 Location: Southern CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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Mine does just fine holding an idle from 30F to 110F (even when the engine is cold or warm) with the ICU completely disconnected. I got it set up pretty good right now, but I'd like to have the system functioning instead of inoperative because the ICU broke...again!
$203 at VC: https://www.vancafe.com/251907393DX-p/251907393dx.htm
Or I was gonna try GW this time since the VC one didn't last: https://www.gowesty.com/product/fuel-injection/23468/idle-control-unit---rebuilt-
As long as I don't have to hack up my wiring harness to install this modern alternative, I'd ditch the stock setup. I'd always want the ability to go back to stock without alteration to the factory harness. |
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Christopholi Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2011 Posts: 234 Location: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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Aryana wrote: |
Mine does just fine holding an idle from 30F to 110F (even when the engine is cold or warm) with the ICU completely disconnected. I got it set up pretty good right now, but I'd like to have the system functioning instead of inoperative because the ICU broke...again!
$203 at VC: https://www.vancafe.com/251907393DX-p/251907393dx.htm
Or I was gonna try GW this time since the VC one didn't last: https://www.gowesty.com/product/fuel-injection/23468/idle-control-unit---rebuilt-
As long as I don't have to hack up my wiring harness to install this modern alternative, I'd ditch the stock setup. I'd always want the ability to go back to stock without alteration to the factory harness. |
My understanding is that all the rebuilt ICUs come from the same place, and vendors send the cores to them (I can't recall the name of the rebuilder). I think quality depends entirely on the state of the core. _________________ 1988 Tintop Wolfsburg Special Edition - "Meatloaf"
RMW 2.5 Subaru, SubaruGears 5MT 4.44 w/LSD, Coast Mountain Hightop |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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zoti Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 2061 Location: Plano, TX USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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My partner finished mapping the ISCU board and we are ready to load it into software and start running simulations.
At this point, if anyone have any extra info on how it works and is willing to share, please feel free to contact me.
Any info is helpful. |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4790 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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as you may know but to document the design parameters... the system increases the duty cycle of the air valve solenoid under the following:
- cold engine to overcome friction and mixture issues
- ac compressor demand when comp kicks in
- ps pump demand by high psi switch on pump
it would be great if the circuit would allow tweaking, via an external potentiometer or rotary encoder to set the idle speed to an arbitrary value not defined by VW. personally, i really LIKE and 1100 rpm idle speed. someone else may want 900rpm. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Idle Stabilizer Control Unit Alternative |
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My plan is to incorporate the idle control to Vanagon chip from the G60 version of Digifant ECU. That allows full closed loop idle control with input from A/C etc. and controls the ISV from the ECU. It also adjusts timing as well to help stabilize the idle. I have already added cylinder selective knock control to the Vanagon chip for my 10:1 2745 cc build. This approach will eliminate the ICM and allow full control of idle parameters like RPM vs ECT. |
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