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Skidmark 1 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2021 Posts: 11 Location: engineer
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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I am running a 2006cc engine that I built myself with twin dell 40's and a SVDA Accuspark ignition distributor, was considering changing to either a Pertronix or a Magna Spark 2 distributor.
I find that the engine runs fine and has done about 1000 miles but its a pain to start if not run for a week, It has a Huco low pressure fuel pump feeding the carbs
Whats people views and experience on the distributors??
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76937 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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The Accuspark is a Chinese copy of the Bosch 034 with an electronic points replacement.
Most likely you're not getting enough vacuum from the carbs for the vacuum advance.
Which Pertronix? Their SVDA copy of their MSD copy? The SVDA copy is no better than the one you have. The MSD copy has the top plate that the weights and rotor mount to crimped to the mainshaft. This crimp can loosen and cause poor running or complete failure. (i've seen it personally).
That leaves the CB Magna Spark. I'd get the digital version so you can tailor the curve to exactly what your engine needs.
If you post engine specs such as cam, heads and compression we can better help.
Also toss that exhaust, it's not helping the engine run its best. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7216 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Skidmark 1 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2021 Posts: 11 Location: engineer
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Alstrup wrote: |
If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem. |
So what would you say it is then? |
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Skidmark 1 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2021 Posts: 11 Location: engineer
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Engine spec, Autolinea case, 78mm counter balance crank, 200mm lightened and balanced fly wheel, 90.5mm barrels and pistons, Engle 110 cam with straight cut cam gears, 30mm oil pump with external cartridge filter, CB 040 heads, 1.25 -1 rockers, Huco 4 PSI electronic fuel pump, original twin 40 Dellortos refurbished with choke 32 main 140 idle 55 pump 35-40 emulsions 9164.2 and air 180. colour tuned compression 9.0-1
When it is running it goes very well no flat spots and pulls like a train, so much so I have fitted a new gearbox with a 3.88 ratio, will pull 80mph no problem.
Everything was new when I built it even down to the 55amp alternator and 55ah battery
Last edited by Skidmark 1 on Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2388 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Skidmark 1 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2021 Posts: 11 Location: engineer
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
Skidmark 1 wrote: |
Alstrup wrote: |
If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem. |
So what would you say it is then? |
Look here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php |
So you don't have a clue then, ahh well hopefully someone on here might have come across or experienced the problem. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7216 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Skidmark 1 wrote: |
Engine spec, Autolinea case, 78mm counter balance crank, 200mm lightened and balanced fly wheel, 90.5mm barrels and pistons, Engle 110 cam with straight cut cam gears, 30mm oil pump with external cartridge filter, CB 040 heads, 1.4 -1 rockers, Huco 4 PSI electronic fuel pump, original twin 40 Dellortos refurbished with choke 32 main 140 idle 55 pump 35-40 emulsions 9164.2 and air 180. colour tuned compression 9.0-1
When it is running it goes very well no flat spots and pulls like a train, so much so I have fitted a new gearbox with a 3.88 ratio, will pull 80mph no problem.
Everything was new when I built it even down to the 55amp alternator and 55ah battery |
WOOW! - youre running 1,4 rockers on a W110 cam??? I hope you have some serius valve springs in there to control that.
It can be anything from a lazy key switch to a half broken wire to ??? _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993
Last edited by Alstrup on Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Skidmark 1 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2021 Posts: 11 Location: engineer
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Glenn wrote: |
The Accuspark is a Chinese copy of the Bosch 034 with an electronic points replacement.
Most likely you're not getting enough vacuum from the carbs for the vacuum advance.
Which Pertronix? Their SVDA copy of their MSD copy? The SVDA copy is no better than the one you have. The MSD copy has the top plate that the weights and rotor mount to crimped to the mainshaft. This crimp can loosen and cause poor running or complete failure. (i've seen it personally).
That leaves the CB Magna Spark. I'd get the digital version so you can tailor the curve to exactly what your engine needs.
If you post engine specs such as cam, heads and compression we can better help.
Also toss that exhaust, it's not helping the engine run its best. |
How does not getting enough vacuum cause starting issues? the engine was timed at 30 degs at 3500rpm with the vac hose disconnected and plugged, when connected will get over 40degs when reved over 3500 rpm |
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APPLEGREENVW Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 2388 Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Skidmark 1 wrote: |
APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
Skidmark 1 wrote: |
Alstrup wrote: |
If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem. |
So what would you say it is then? |
Look here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php |
So you don't have a clue then, ahh well hopefully someone on here might have come across or experienced the problem. |
Look for your answer. _________________ Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW
02/76 Beetle sedan |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15308 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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What plugs are you running and what are they gapped at?
I agree changing distributors is not gonna solve your issue.
You are throwing away at least 10 HP running that dual exhaust. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12730 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Painfully simple.
Think fire triangle.
You need air, spark and fuel to run. We can eliminate air, you have enough spark to run all day after it starts so that leaves...
.... and what does a cold engine need more of to start but not so much afterward to run? Hint - it's not air or spark generally. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Skidmark 1 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2021 Posts: 11 Location: engineer
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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oprn wrote: |
Painfully simple.
Think fire triangle.
You need air, spark and fuel to run. We can eliminate air, you have enough spark to run all day after it starts so that leaves...
.... and what does a cold engine need more of to start but not so much afterward to run? Hint - it's not air or spark generally. |
I was thinking that I possibly was not getting a good quality of spark when starting, that could lead me to plugs, leads, dizzy and coil, I have heard but might be wrong that the likes of the Magna Spark 2 distributer with coil and leads produce a good spark at start up, I am going to change the dizy that I have fitted with the Accuspark electronic module and coil and wanted to know peoples experience with the Pertronix flame thrower ignitor and the Magna Spark 2 |
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Tom snowden Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2015 Posts: 55 Location: San Jose
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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I have the Magna Spark on my 1915 dual Weber’s same issue. It’s lack of fuel after sitting that long it evaporates I’ve figured out. When I get in pump pedal a few times then let off, and crank it over a few times. I do this maybe twice then bang it starts. Don’t give it gas while doing this or it will flood and not start. It’s my trick and now works every time! Sorry it’s not technical but it works for me.it’s not spark. Good luck |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3818 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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I’m running a Pertronix II coil, plug wires and module in a chrome oh-oh-nine (094). I bought the whole kit but since people say their distributor is crappy, I put the module in my 094.
Engine is a 2276, Web 86a with CB 1.4 rockers, 044 Super Mags and dual 45 Dells with a Carter rotary pump and a Revolution Electronics controller. On startup after a week I’ll cycle the pump a couple times, press the throttle 3 times then hold to the floor and crank. Starts right up. That is learned behavior.
Without that procedure, it was hard to start.
My engine “pulls like a train” too but I always say it runs like a scalded cat.
My criticism is that the boots on the Pertronix plug wires get hard quickly (unlike myself these days) and ride up the wire so they don’t seal the plug hole anymore. Also the distributor o-ring that comes with it sux.
I also have a MagnaSpark II on my shelf but I haven’t played with it yet. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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Skidmark 1 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2021 Posts: 11 Location: engineer
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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jeffrey8164 wrote: |
I’m running a Pertronix II coil, plug wires and module in a chrome oh-oh-nine (094). I bought the whole kit but since people say their distributor is crappy, I put the module in my 094.
Engine is a 2276, Web 86a with CB 1.4 rockers, 044 Super Mags and dual 45 Dells with a Carter rotary pump and a Revolution Electronics controller. On startup after a week I’ll cycle the pump a couple times, press the throttle 3 times then hold to the floor and crank. Starts right up. That is learned behavior.
Without that procedure, it was hard to start.
My engine “pulls like a train” too but I always say it runs like a scalded cat.
My criticism is that the boots on the Pertronix plug wires get hard quickly (unlike myself these days) and ride up the wire so they don’t seal the plug hole anymore. Also the distributor o-ring that comes with it sux.
I also have a MagnaSpark II on my shelf but I haven’t played with it yet. |
Thanks for that, very useful information especially cycling the pump and holding to the floor |
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Tom snowden Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2015 Posts: 55 Location: San Jose
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Sorry don’t hold to floor leave it up! Holding to floor makes it worse I found. Just pump then no gas at all. |
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Paul Jr Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2018 Posts: 458 Location: PA
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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I was told holding to the floor will sometimes help if you have flooded the engine.
Something about it can’t get any more fuel from the carb with the throttle wide open and the engine turning at only the RPM the starter is able to crank it at.
With an electric fuel pump, my engines fires right up by turning the ignition to run for about 30 seconds to ensure the float Bowles are full then about a 1/3 pump of the pedal ( just one pump) then hit the starter.
It seems to fire every time and most times needs no throttle at all to stay running but when it’s real cold I do need to feather the pedal lightly for about 90 seconds before it idles without stalling. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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It might seem expensive to some but a megasquirt or microsquirt for ignition only would be the best investment anyone could make for a long term spark solution.
Most distributors sold today new or used are more than likely junk.
Cry once and then you can giggle every time you have to read a distributor related thread.
I’ve had MS for 9 years now and never had one issue with spark....
46,000 miles..... same coil, same wires, no distributor needed......ever!!!!😉🙄😎
The hidden secret???? You can upgrade to FI once you get sick of the carbs...... _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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flat4olsen Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2014 Posts: 342 Location: Denmark, Europe
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Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark |
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Glenn wrote: |
The Accuspark is a Chinese copy of the Bosch 034 with an electronic points replacement.
Most likely you're not getting enough vacuum from the carbs for the vacuum advance.
Which Pertronix? Their SVDA copy of their MSD copy? The SVDA copy is no better than the one you have. The MSD copy has the top plate that the weights and rotor mount to crimped to the mainshaft. This crimp can loosen and cause poor running or complete failure. (i've seen it personally).
That leaves the CB Magna Spark. I'd get the digital version so you can tailor the curve to exactly what your engine needs.
If you post engine specs such as cam, heads and compression we can better help.
Also toss that exhaust, it's not helping the engine run its best. |
CB Magnaspark digital is NLA. They finally found out, that they don’t work as they should. Tried 3 of them and all of them failed.
If the OP doesn’t experience stumble, I would suspect, that the 034 clone gets the vacuum it needs to pull the vacuum advance.
I would guess, that the problem is fuel related,- a lot of fuel evaporates from the fuel bowl after a week of still stand.... The fuel pump needs to fill the bowls, before the carbs can deliver fuel to the heads
I use this relay to prime my carbs before starting. Also works as a safety relay: https://www.revolutionelectronics.com/Products/Fuel_Pump.html _________________ Type 1 1968, Lotosweiss. 2109 oxyboxer engine
Early Bay 1970, Montana Red. Under construction |
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