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1st gear oil change... SURPRISE!
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d_walküre
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Location: Tulsa, OK
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:13 pm    Post subject: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Finished my first gear and engine oil change in the SVX Syncro this weekend (which for me is Mon/Tues), and was loathe to find out I had to drop the entire exhaust in order to get to the rear drain plug... ugh!!! It wasn't too difficult, but if I follow SOTO's sage oil change advice, this may get old.

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Pretty nice unicorn blood swirlies from the rear transaxle...

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...and not looking too bad in the front.

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I'm thinking dual exhaust for the SVX might be in order if nothing else to make oil changes easier. I couldn't find a suitable GL-4 oil locally, so I went with Royal Purple. I might end up buying Redline online since it will probably be cheaper that RP which was $23/qt!!! I am looking forward to seeing that purple unicorn blood next oil change, though.
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JesusV

1987 Vanagon GL Syncro SVX NAHT "Valkyrie"
1993 Eurovan Weekender "Camper van Beethoven"
1959 Bug


Last edited by d_walküre on Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

On my SVX syncro install, I welded 2 17mm bolt heads together, stuck that in the oil drain plug, and used a 17mm open end wrench to remove the bolt. There are other, easier solutions for next time, such as SODO's method.
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:
On my SVX syncro install, I welded 2 17mm bolt heads together, stuck that in the oil drain plug, and used a 17mm open end wrench to remove the bolt. There are other, easier solutions for next time, such as SODO's method.


i welded a nut onto a bolt for the same effect... can use a wrench to undo the drain plug as the exhaust is close even on the 2.1 wbx.
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60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Put foil on the pipe so you don’t have to smell burning transmission oil for a month, yuck.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Put foil on the pipe so you don’t have to smell burning transmission oil for a month, yuck.


....a month or a minute ?

First it is the Vanagon owners manual that says changing the oil is not necessary. Well they are right..
Then it its the Syncro under-bars, covering the drain plug.
Now Header designers are in on it too!
And TheSamba was kinda "that way..." for a long time.
Vanagon transaxle abuse is systemic.
(sodo = transaxle justice warrior) Wink

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Here's a tool I made for my brother who has KEP headers.

J walkure I'd run a $20/gallon of garden-variety gear oil thru there for 500 miles and flush ALL of that sparkly stuff out before buying specialty oil. I'd use GL5 for the modern Extreme Pressure additives.
You might have to shift slower with GL5 than GL4 but that's the breaks, you can learn that.
Buy an old-guy hat and own it.

Just understand that the biggest baddest oil you can get is only a few percent better than GL5. So if $23/quart causes you to run oil for longer than you should, that tiny percent gained by $23x4 = $92 will "go negative" on you.

You should assume that your transaxle, with gears and shafts and bearings sized for appx 60 hp in the mid-sixties, then used for up to 90HP by VW..... will be making unicorn blood even faster with 240HP.
And faster yet, as the parts pass ~90k miles into our antiques realm.

I use the word "assume" lightly.

My advice is to remove any impediment to clean lubricant.
Changing will get easier as you get the proper tubs, pumps, better methods.
There are some Samba threads.

It's antique, rare, and over-engined.
Consider changing it every other engine oil change.
Unless your magnet starts coming out real clean.
Consider the un-likelihood that as the miles increase, that your magnet may starts to come out cleaner and cleaner?....nope.
Logic suggests it will get covered sooner each time with 240HP,
but you can cross your fingers.🤞🏽🤞🏽
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb


Last edited by Sodo on Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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d_walküre
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

These are GREAT suggestions. But, you do realize you talked me out of buying double headers for my engine Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Seriously, thank you. I guess I'll have to find somewhere else to throw all this cash that's burning a hole in my pocket.
Abscate wrote:
Put foil on the pipe so you don’t have to smell burning transmission oil for a month, yuck.

Haha! Will do Embarassed

Sodo wrote:
Just understand that the biggest baddest oil you can get is only a few percent better than GL5. So if $23/quart causes you to run oil for longer than you should, that tiny percent gained by $23 will go negative on you.

Agreed! With this being a new vehicle to me with unknown driving habits of the PO, I was planning on babying the drivetrain for a while... at least until I get really comfortable with it. So, I do want to make frequent oil changes for the time being.
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JesusV

1987 Vanagon GL Syncro SVX NAHT "Valkyrie"
1993 Eurovan Weekender "Camper van Beethoven"
1959 Bug
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Same situation I took a 17mm nut and inserted it half into the drain plug and used a 17mm open end wrench to back the plug out. Bob’s your uncle. Actually he is mine.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Order one of these, cut it to length as needed.

Use an open end or box wrench.

10mm thread, 15mm long, 17mm hex body, perfect for drain plugs.

https://www.amazon.com/2pcs-Coupling-Stainless-Steel-ABBOTT/dp/B07M7YXG86

Dave
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bobbyblack Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

I agree on a low cost gear oil, run for a bit, drain. (Lift front end to get more drained?) And then something to actually make a difference, and sure, costs plenty, but peace of mind is top of my list (not that I am a Syncro owner...) so I've gone from first oil change on mine 5 years ago, 'rinsed' with off the shelf stuff from my local Farm Store, drove it ~200 miles and drained on an incline immediately after a drive to get it warm/hot. Then put Redline in, as I had been drinking GW coolaid at that time. Ran that for a couple years, and then decided to undrink the coolaid and go to Swepco 202. It is a bit stiff, but I just take my time and use a light touch to do my shifts to 1st and R. I sleep better now.

If I were a Syncro owner, I certainly wouldn't be thinking spending $120 for gear oil was very much. I'd probably be looking at an even better/costlier oil.
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d_walküre
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Order one of these, cut it to length as needed.

Use an open end or box wrench.

10mm thread, 15mm long, 17mm hex body, perfect for drain plugs.

https://www.amazon.com/2pcs-Coupling-Stainless-Steel-ABBOTT/dp/B07M7YXG86

Dave

Nice find! Im getting some good ideas for my new drain plug tool... Thanks guys!
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JesusV

1987 Vanagon GL Syncro SVX NAHT "Valkyrie"
1993 Eurovan Weekender "Camper van Beethoven"
1959 Bug
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d_walküre
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

bobbyblack wrote:

If I were a Syncro owner, I certainly wouldn't be thinking spending $120 for gear oil was very much. I'd probably be looking at an even better/costlier oil.

Agreed! I wish I would have picked a cheaper oil to flush the trans with, but on the other hand my rig is shifting pretty great. Redline, Swepco... I'm fairly agnostic as far as oils go at this point. Depending on how my flush goes in a few hundred miles, I have half a mind to stick with the purple stuff from my FLAPS. Is haven't heard anything negative about it.
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1987 Vanagon GL Syncro SVX NAHT "Valkyrie"
1993 Eurovan Weekender "Camper van Beethoven"
1959 Bug
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

You don't wanna be unbolting headers.
That will add a barrier to transaxle maintenance.
Unbolting headers is always more than you bargained for.
Leave them be.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Another option, depending on how much space there is between the header and the plug (which varies !!) . The drain plug is a tapered thread, its torque spec is 14 ft-lbs. If it's not rusted stuck from 30 years of non-use, you don't need the full hex engagement.

You already have over-engined it, and it's only getting older and rarer.
Going back to a WBX could be 'wise' but nobody would do that.
Focus upon ease of maintenance seems a wise direction

If $120 of oil is peanuts, 7-11% better lubricity could be worthwhile for a guy who has 240HP hanging on an old 90HP transaxle.
It does seem like kind of a potlatch but Syncros are good for that. Wink

Or have a 'wowie' welded into the header around the drain port.

Basically a Syncro can provide enjoyment in the shop, and enjoyment in the drivers seat. I like "both".👍🏽👍🏽

Others likely want the reliability of good maintenance, but not the 'work' or expense.
But ya gotta.....
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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d_walküre
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Funny story: After I removed the headers and got to the drain plug, I realized the PO wrapped it in teflon tape and was only in there hand tight. Now I know why. Applause
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JesusV

1987 Vanagon GL Syncro SVX NAHT "Valkyrie"
1993 Eurovan Weekender "Camper van Beethoven"
1959 Bug
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CanStan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Order one of these, cut it to length as needed.

Use an open end or box wrench.

10mm thread, 15mm long, 17mm hex body, perfect for drain plugs.

https://www.amazon.com/2pcs-Coupling-Stainless-Steel-ABBOTT/dp/B07M7YXG86

Dave


This ^^^^^
You can pick them up at Home Depot where the bulk bolts and hardware are for maybe $1 or $2. Lots of different lengths. 1” seems to be a good length to sit deep into the plug, and give enough meat to get a wrench on the outside. I must have a dozen of them in tool boxes and all over the shop. Cheap and easy and work great!
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d_walküre
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

I went the Home Depot route. Bought a long one, cut in half, drilled them out and glued in some cheap magnets so they'll stay up in there while I use a regular box wrench to get the plugs out. The magnets work GREAT! I'm getting a little too excited about my next oil change 😂😂😂

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1987 Vanagon GL Syncro SVX NAHT "Valkyrie"
1993 Eurovan Weekender "Camper van Beethoven"
1959 Bug
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

i really like the magnet idea!!
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60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

d_walküre wrote:
I'm getting a little too excited about my next oil change 😂😂😂


Uh oh, is this competition?
We’ll see what yer made of pal.... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
How about buying another drain magnet plug and put it in the filler hole?
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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d_walküre
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
d_walküre wrote:
I'm getting a little too excited about my next oil change 😂😂😂


Uh oh, is this competition?
We’ll see what yer made of pal.... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
How about buying another drain magnet plug and put it in the filler hole?

Haha! you're on. But, don't need one for the filler bc there's not an exhaust pipe in the way.
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1987 Vanagon GL Syncro SVX NAHT "Valkyrie"
1993 Eurovan Weekender "Camper van Beethoven"
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mdub
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here's a tool I made for my brother who has KEP headers.



That's a nice looking little tool! I went with the Home Depot rod coupling nut, cut in half to just barely clear my Small Car headers. Looks like the KEP headers are even more tight Shocked

I'll have to add your tool idea to my mental list of things to make if I ever learn to weld!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1st gear oil change... SURPRISE! Reply with quote

You would have to shorten this one to get at the Vanagon drain plug. It is just a 3/4" hex ground down in the end to fit the 17mm hex and uses a 3/4" or 19mm wrench to turn it. The hex takes of little space in the travel tool box and the 19mm combo wrench is in there anyway.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Somewhere I also have the Snapon tool for VW drain plugs, a $9 ebay purchase IIRC.
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