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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3274 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit. Bellhousing vs Adapter? |
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I used the SmallCar cast aluminum oil pan in my SVX conversion. I like the fact that it is wider, by almost 2 inches all around, which allows me to have greater oil capacity without an excessively low oil pan. It is strong, but it is not rock-proof, (MOAB rocks are rather hard ) so I would recommend that you make a skid plate to go right under the pan (you can connect it to the SC motor mounts) or fasten a small skid plate directly to the cast aluminum pan with, say, six or eight of the oil pan retaining bolts. This will require you to purchase some longer M8 bolts.
Even a steel oil pan on a Vanagon shouold have a skid pan under the oil pan, in my opinion. If you never go anywhere that a pan strike might happen, then disregard the skid pan suggestion.
The RJES bellhousing is a better-designed and better-executed item than the SmallCar unit, but my SmallCar unit has served me well. You will be thankful you went with the RJES unit. _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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pbrown Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2008 Posts: 443 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit. Bellhousing vs Adapter? |
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-Exhaust system (or kit?)
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Many options. I pieced mine together and can be seen above. I used Stan's Header, stock 2.1 Vanagon muffler, universal cat from Van Cafe, and a stock Vanagon J-pipe that I modified. I used Small Car muffler mounts and straps. I welded an O2 bung on the J-pipe for one of the O2 sensors.
Look at the CD-ROM that comes with the RJES bellhousing. It has good information on which Subaru starter fits best.
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-Subaru throwout bearing
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Go to a Subaru dealer/parts counter and ask for a throwout bearing for a 2003 Impreza with a 2.5L non-turbo engine. Do not buy an aftermarket bearing. It won't fit in the bracket that comes with the RJES bellhousing.
Did your engine come with a flywheel? If not, go to car-part.com and find a used flywheel. Have the surface machined flat.
While you are at the Subaru parts counter, ask for a set of flywheel bolts. They are sold as singles. I think you need eight if I'm remembering correctly.
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-Subaru clutch kit (I have a brand new Sach clutch kit for Vanagon, I guess I should sell this and get a subaru one?)
-Bellhousing, Starter and Clutch Bolt
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You will need a Subaru pressure plate but still need the VW clutch disk. You can keep the disk from the kit. The disk is also sold singly. I have a spare that I lost, repurchased, and then found again.
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-maybe Slave Cylinder/Release Bearing for Bellhousing? |
Release bearing and throwout bearing are the same things. You should probably replace the clutch master/slave while you have this all apart. (Wondering when we will rename the master/slave hydraulic terms as no longer PC)
Do not toss your old throughout bearing. There are some spring clips that you will need to transfer to the RJES parts. I tossed mine out and ended up buying a brand new Sachs throwout just for the spring clips. _________________ Patrick Brown
1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit. Bellhousing vs Adapter? |
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Very good info ^^up there^^ pbrown!
shagginwagon83 wrote: |
On the oil pan, I'd love the ability to check the oil through the license plate door. |
Northwesty is working on a a 6 quart cast aluminum oilpan that's much thicker/stronger/heavier/bigger than Smallcar, and you can add oil thru the license plate door.
AFAIK it requires the Northwesty engine mount too.
Which is quite similar to the Smallcar mount, but leaves a passageway for oil thru the lic plate door..
Northwesty had some in-stock that he could sell a few months ago but I don't knowwhere he's at on that project. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4026 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit. Bellhousing vs Adapter? |
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How does the Subaru Starter interface with the locking mechanism on a Syncro?
I have a Ken Welter built 2.2, Ken is a great guy and always picks up the phone. Last time I talked to him he said he will no longer build a Subaru for a Vanagon with a KEP flywheel as he does not like the flywheel so far from the crank and is concerned with longevity with the engine.
I like the fact that with a RJES bell you are not captive by KEP when you need a flywheel.
Does anyone know the current costs of the Bell Housing with all needed parts and is there any problem with shipping out of G.B. after Brexit.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit. Bellhousing vs Adapter? |
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16CVs wrote: |
How does the Subaru Starter interface with the locking mechanism on a Syncro? |
Subaru starter is tiny compared to VW starter.
Leaving MUCH more space to the locker bidness. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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pjn_wyo Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2019 Posts: 181 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit - RJES Bellhousing |
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I bought a bellhousing, transmission input shaft and cross shaft modified for a turbo style clutch from RJES in August 2020 for 755 GBP shipped. It came fedex global in 3 days or so to NW Washington.
I have not purchased a starter/flywheel/turbo clutch yet as the project will be awhile until it gets off the ground and am in the "parts accrual" phase. |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit. Bellhousing vs Adapter? |
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16CVs wrote: |
Does anyone know the current costs of the Bell Housing with all needed parts and is there any problem with shipping out of G.B. after Brexit. |
I ordered an RJES bellhousing kit, new SS throttle cable (looks amazing quality), and a reverse coolant manifold for about $900 USD. I ordered it on a Monday and I think it came in Saturday.
pbrown wrote: |
Many options. I pieced mine together and can be seen above. I used Stan's Header, stock 2.1 Vanagon muffler, universal cat from Van Cafe, and a stock Vanagon J-pipe that I modified. I used Small Car muffler mounts and straps. I welded an O2 bung on the J-pipe for one of the O2 sensors.
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pbrown! Thank you so much for all the information! I'm slowly processing everything - so I'm going to take quotes from your reply and process them as I get time.
I am now focused on the header/exhaust of the system. Like I said I'm pretty sold on the small car mount (mainly due to not drilling additional holes) - OH and my GoWesty hitch uses the vanagon engine bar!
I am looking into Stan's headers. I messaged a company locally asking for a quote to ceramic coat the headers.
I invested in the GoWesty SS 2.1 exhaust system so I am hoping to reuse a lot of that kit! For that reason, I'm sorta leaning towards going SmallCar headers. I hear the quality has been improved. I do like how a lot of it is 'one piece' compared to RMW.
I'm leaning more towards Smallcar because I do have to buy an engine mount from them.
From what I gather, a mild steel exhaust, ceramic coated, like Stan's headers, is a better investment. This doesn't apply to me, but from the past it looks like Stan's headers are not compatible with the syncro skid plate. I might end up doing a skid plate of some sort in the future.
I love the porsche grey and your setup pbrown. I'm going to wait to hear back from my local ceramic coaters. But really I'm thinking I might settle for smallcar due to an out of box solution. What modifications did you make to the J-pipe? _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit - RJES Bellhousing |
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Smallcar is out of stock on both mount and header til mid march. I didn't get a response from the local ceramic coaters on estimate to coat header. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4026 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit - RJES Bellhousing |
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So if going from an adapter plate to a bell housing would you also convert the input shaft and use a Subaru disc or just stick with the VW disc? Any plus's or minus's either way?
Does having a Bell Housing make it any easier to install a Transaxle on over the adapter plate? I put a Syncro trans in my van with the adapter plate a couple of times and it seemed really hard, way harder than it should have been.
I am trying to get together a parts list for this, so that when I do it I do not have the van tied up on a rack while I am missing one piece.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16505 Location: Brookeville, MD
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connorsvw2 Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2008 Posts: 347 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit - RJES Bellhousing |
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Be careful with your shortened pan and make sure the oil pickup is modified to stay near the center of the pan. On my early SC steel pan from 2003, the pickup was simply shortened, which placed it near the rear corner of the pan; with a flat-bottom pan and no baffling to speak of I saw rare oil light flickering under hard braking. On my Burley shortened pan, Burley shortened but also redirected the pickup towards the middle of the pan. I've never seen any flicker or pressure drops on my OP gauge. I did mod Burley's pickup to support the end of the pickup by welding on a steel strut to triangulate it, similar to a stock Subaru pickup. I was concerned about resonant vibrations leading to pickup cracking which could be catastrophic. _________________ '85 Westy Wolfsburg camper/2002 2.5 Subaru since 2003.
'85 GTI 1.8L 1-owner 8v-gave up on 9A 2.0L 16v transplant. Keeping her stock!
'99 Passat 1.8T Variant-AKA "The Money Pit". Still limping along...
'09 Subaru Outback XT 5-speed, 245 hp rocket (wife's car) |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together a Subaru kit using RJES Bellhousing |
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Woah!! You guys were not kidding about this CDROM. Very awesome information and installation guide. This CDROM answered so many of my questions/concerns and I am very confident in doing conversion now. So many part numbers too.
Due to popular demand (and me drooling over pbrown's header/exhaust earlier in the thread, I went ahead and bought Stan's headers. Having them ceramic coated for an additional $200. I think 3-4 weeks is what he estimated - which is about same time Smallcar will have their mount ready.
I'm reading the CDROM right now. Again, I'm new to this but damn if these instructions are not amazing.
I guess because I'm going to be offroading, and possibly giving the clutch a hard time, I should go with a single mass flywheel. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm really new to everything in between the engine and the transmission.
1346 Clutch Disc - 228mm - Need to buy. Chris at T3 Technique used this on a couple of vans and likes it. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Beakerflo Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2015 Posts: 40 Location: Langedijk, Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Piecing together a Subaru kit using RJES Bellhousing |
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I have had so many issues in my conversion to a Subaru EJ25 engine from a DJ engine. Most of them are due to unreliable companies.
But one thing that never missed a beat was the RJES bell housing. My recommendation would be for future builders;
* RJES bell housing
* RJES cooling system cooling hoses
* Tom Shiels cooling hoses routing
If you want more information about the bell housing, the product was provided with this help (the cd-rom):
https://beakerbus.nl/files/bellhousing/blhsg_insts_frames.htm _________________ regards,
Floris van Enter
http://beakerbus.nl (Dutch) |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together a Subaru kit using RJES Bellhousing |
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Update:
-Stan's headers were made earlier this week and are in the process of being ceramic coated
-Purchased Outfront Motorsports for roughly ~410 shipped. I did not have a core and also wanted them to modify a new oil pan - so this was an additional $110 to the $270 price.
I actually might be working out a deal trading my 91 OBD1 (CA smog friendly) Ej22 harness for a 98 EJ 22 OBD 2 harness!
Note I'll have to swap the whole top manifold, harness, and ECU.
Small car motor mount is suppose to come back in stock mid march.
Pro internet tip: I setup custom alerts using a Chrome extension called "Distill.io". Basically you can set 'watches' out for page changes. You can set it to check for changes every minute if you want. Anyhow, I have setup alerts for small car engine mount and Slaughterhouse Customs electric steering.
I used this method to help many friends secure PS5s/Xboxs during Christmas.
Oh yeah - so Slaughterhouse customs electric steering coming _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together a Subaru kit using RJES Bellhousing |
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Stan's headers came in. My dad is a welder and the first thing he said was 'a new guy must have made these'. Besides that I think they're high quality and worth the investment. The ceramic coat looks nice.
Installed EPAS steering and it's incredible. Highly recommended.
I'm still waiting for my OBD2 harness/manifold, small car engine mount to be in stock, and a couple other pieces.
After talking to Richard at RJES - turns out Exedy KSB04 clutch kit has the pressure plate and the release bearing I need. I already have a new VW Sachs I bought 'damaged box' for $50 shipped off ebay two years ago. That clutch disc will work.
I still need to find a starter. Thinking of trying to get a new 'oem' starter from the junkyard. Also need a flywheel. Luckily I'm not under a lot of pressure to get these Subaru parts as they are so common _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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markswagen Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2018 Posts: 1039 Location: san diego
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together the best Subaru kit - RJES Bellhousing |
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i have found, it's much easier to use bolts instead of the upper studs into the adapter plate.
also, the lower studs, i have loctied nuts to the studs, so they can be drawn out of the adapter plate, again makes it MUCH easier, to remove and refit, as long as care is taken.
i'm putting pieces together to do my syncro conversion next, i'm considering putting timeserts into the adapter plate.
16CVs wrote: |
So if going from an adapter plate to a bell housing would you also convert the input shaft and use a Subaru disc or just stick with the VW disc? Any plus's or minus's either way?
Does having a Bell Housing make it any easier to install a Transaxle on over the adapter plate? I put a Syncro trans in my van with the adapter plate a couple of times and it seemed really hard, way harder than it should have been.
I am trying to get together a parts list for this, so that when I do it I do not have the van tied up on a rack while I am missing one piece.
Stacy |
_________________ markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together a Subaru kit using RJES Bellhousing |
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OG bellhousing has been removed. Everything visible to the eye seems okay.
Removing the release arm off the end of the shaft required me to buy a new tool. 2 ton, 2 arm puller - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KJ29Q4
There was no way to salvage this original piece. Luckily Van Cafe sells a factory VW cross arm bushing kit for all Vanagon's 1980-1991 with a manual transmission.
https://www.vancafe.com/KT-1984101-p/kt-1984101.htm
For my EJ22, I decided to do head gaskets, timing belt kit, oil pump, new covers. I'm basically 1k into parts for the motor.
I took the heads off, took them to a machine shop to get cleaned and checked. They told me everything looks good, paid $132, when I got home upon further inspection I had one head that had cracks around the spark plug.
I took them to a 'subaru specialty' shop who will swap everything over to a new casting and give it a valve job.
I believe my harness is almost finished too. I'm ready to go camping. It sucks being nice out and not having a van. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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pbrown Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2008 Posts: 443 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Piecing together a Subaru kit using RJES Bellhousing |
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Consider replacing your cross arm shaft with the HD version. The originals can fail at the weld. Alternatively, you can add another bead of weld to the other side of each fork arm.
https://www.vancafe.com/091141701HD-p/091141701hd.htm _________________ Patrick Brown
1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Piecing together a Subaru kit using RJES Bellhousing |
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Thank you for the recommendation! Since my dad is a welder I will just reinforce my original. I'll post a picture once it is reinforced _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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