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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:48 am Post subject: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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I have a 60 beetle that I’m trying to get running. The 36 original engine is toast.
I just bought a 70 parts car with a running engine. Can someone identify what engine I may have. The problem is there is no serial and it looks to be on the up and up . In other words not modified.
I would like to use this if possible with my split case. I understand the need for trim alterations and flywheel clearances. It has no discernible play in crank at the pulley.
I have another 1200 but although it’s not stuck it has been sitting a long long time. It has the smaller flywheel
One question other than engine size is. Exactly which clutch I should use with larger flywheel and split case transmission.
I thought about buying the bus nos cone and hockey stick but there wasn’t anything wrong with the split case and I’m going for whatever is simple.
Thanks
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zwillisgosteli Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2008 Posts: 77 Location: puyallup
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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I ran a 200mm clutch with a later 12v flywheel in a '62 I used to have, and I just clearanced the bell housing to accommodate the larger flywheel. |
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TinCanFab Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 2743 Location: Waterford, California
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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1960 is a one year only front transmission mount setup. Leave it alone while you are running a split case transmission. The Bus parts swap is mainly for 59 and earlier pans. You will want to search on here and read up about the 1960 only stuff. Your best option may be to buy a new 61 and newer mount and weld it onto the torsion housing.
The engine looks like a common 1500/1600 single port. Run it, but never without the hoses missing from the fan shroud to heater boxes. It's overheating the heads. Seal up all the holes in the tins and fan shroud, also overheating the heads. Pull the shroud and cylinder tins to inspect for rat nests and other stuff clogging up the cooling air and fan. Because, you guessed it, it causes the engine to run hot. _________________ Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood
They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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It presently has a 28 pict carburetor. Would a 1500 or 1600 have come with one of those. I thought it would be at least a 30. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24729 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7018 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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The later style tinware, 12v generator, and small cap SVA distributor all point toward the engine most likely being a 1500/1600 single port engine. The 28 PICT carburetor bolts straight onto 1300/1500/1600 single port manifolds, so that one feature alone wouldn't sway the identification in my opinion. Be aware the old split case transaxle isn't generally considered to be robust enough when paired with engines with more power than the old 25 and 36hp mills.
You can install a 40hp 180mm/109 tooth flywheel on that later engine if you don't feel like messing with clearancing your split case bellhousing. The stock 180mm clutch and pressure plate works ok with this combo in a Bug if in good shape. If you're hard set on using the larger 200mm clutch, there are also 200mm/109 tooth flywheels made for the earlier Type 2 that'll work for you. Keep in mind you'll need to use a compatible starter for either of these flywheels. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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zwillisgosteli Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2008 Posts: 77 Location: puyallup
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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mukluk wrote: |
The later style tinware, 12v generator, and small cap SVA distributor all point toward the engine most likely being a 1500/1600 single port engine. The 28 PICT carburetor bolts straight onto 1300/1500/1600 single port manifolds, so that one feature alone wouldn't sway the identification in my opinion. Be aware the old split case transaxle isn't generally considered to be robust enough when paired with engines with more power than the old 25 and 36hp mills.
You can install a 40hp 180mm/109 tooth flywheel on that later engine if you don't feel like messing with clearancing your split case bellhousing. The stock 180mm clutch and pressure plate works ok with this combo in a Bug if in good shape. If you're hard set on using the larger 200mm clutch, there are also 200mm/109 tooth flywheels made for the earlier Type 2 that'll work for you. Keep in mind you'll need to use a compatible starter for either of these flywheels. |
Good thing those 12v starters with a 6v gear have come down a little in price. (if that's the route one chose to take) Back in the day I had a starter shop rebuild my 6 volt starter to be 12 volts, and it was not cheap. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24729 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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zwillisgosteli wrote: |
Good thing those 12v starters with a 6v gear have come down a little in price. (if that's the route one chose to take) Back in the day I had a starter shop rebuild my 6 volt starter to be 12 volts, and it was not cheap. |
Better to just use 6 volt starter with 12 volt solenoid! _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7018 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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zwillisgosteli wrote: |
Good thing those 12v starters with a 6v gear have come down a little in price. (if that's the route one chose to take) Back in the day I had a starter shop rebuild my 6 volt starter to be 12 volts, and it was not cheap. |
A standard 6v starter can be used reliably instead of the expensive 12v reworked ones, though the 6v solenoid operating on 12v can be a bit hard on the flywheel teeth in the long run. The easy and relatively cheap route to correct this problem is to swap out the 6v solenoid for one from a 12v starter. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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I suppose if it is a 15 or 1600 engine a 28 pict would be too small or could it have come with that ?
Here is a couple pics of my car at present
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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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I hate sanding filler. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24729 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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Kthomas wrote: |
I suppose if it is a 15 or 1600 engine a 28 pict would be too small or could it have come with that ?
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Specifications from the 1965 bus owner manual:
The 1600 came with the 30 PICT and went up to 34 PICT-3 with the dual port.
Have known folks to run a 30 PICT with engines up to 1776cc size for more torque. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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So, it could be a 1500 or ? I guess the only way to know for sure since there isn’t a serial is the pull a head and measure the piston. I’m planning on pulling the engine within a few weeks ( maybe ) 😬 |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24729 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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Kthomas wrote: |
So, it could be a 1500 or ? I guess the only way to know for sure since there isn’t a serial is the pull a head and measure the piston. I’m planning on pulling the engine within a few weeks ( maybe ) 😬 |
and measure stroke. Could be someone installed a 74mm stroker. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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Kthomas wrote: |
I have a 60 beetle that I’m trying to get running. The 36 original engine is toast. |
Toast in what way?
I guess it depends on what you are doing with the car. Imo, it’s a shame to be doing all the bodywork for paint, only to have a non-original engine if going for a stock appearing paint job. I’d be rebuilding the og engine. If you want more kick, go with a Wolfsburg West Okrassa kit with dual carbs. Whatever way you go, don’t scrap the engine if you have a strong feeling it is the original.
If you’re wanting more of a Cal-Look cruiser, and the non-numbered engine block in the 70 is a dual relief replacement case, the sky is the limit. I’d be doing a 2180 with dual 44’s. |
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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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There way a lot of play in the 36 hp crank. The crank itself was shot as well as everything else. I suppose I could have the cases line bored with oversized shells or ?. Either way right now I’m all about quick fixes because I am close to burnout on this car. I have tried to keep the rest of the car as close to stock as possible as well as not cutting corners on restoration methods . I have the original 36 engine and can always rebuild it later. I’m planning on leaving the split case an grinding it out . I will be gentle with it. I’m also planning on going to 12 volts. (Sacrilege I know )
I may never finish sanding. I would have thought polyester glaze would be easier to sand than regular filler but this shite is hard as a rock. 🤪 |
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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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Can anyone identify this engine ? I’ve always thought it was a 1200 but I’m not sure . As you can see it looks to have a D at the beginning and an X at the end. I can’t figure it out from the serial number charts.
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Kthomas Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2021 Posts: 254 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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Ok
I think it is a recycle engine ? Maybe a replacement as i think it has a recycle symbol and the X at the end. I just found this info at the bottom of the serial number page. It’s anybody’s guess what displacement ? 🤪 |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24729 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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Circular arrow symbol means recycled, and the original engine number has been milled off. thus the kind of cartouche shape the present number is inset into. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Engine decisions for 60 beetle |
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mukluk wrote: |
The later style tinware, 12v generator, and small cap SVA distributor all point toward the engine most likely being a 1500/1600 single port engine. The 28 PICT carburetor bolts straight onto 1300/1500/1600 single port manifolds, so that one feature alone wouldn't sway the identification in my opinion. Be aware the old split case transaxle isn't generally considered to be robust enough when paired with engines with more power than the old 25 and 36hp mills.
You can install a 40hp 180mm/109 tooth flywheel on that later engine if you don't feel like messing with clearancing your split case bellhousing. The stock 180mm clutch and pressure plate works ok with this combo in a Bug if in good shape. If you're hard set on using the larger 200mm clutch, there are also 200mm/109 tooth flywheels made for the earlier Type 2 that'll work for you. Keep in mind you'll need to use a compatible starter for either of these flywheels. |
That's actually a tall cap SVA distributor probably a 0 231 137 035/113 905 205 T and not a good match with the 28 PICT carburetor. It delivers 32 degrees of advance and would be static timed at @TDC. Disregard the spark advance in the technical data table above. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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