| Would you be interested in this product if it were available? |
| Yes |
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33% |
[ 13 ] |
| No |
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53% |
[ 21 ] |
| Maybe |
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12% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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| Author |
Message |
andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| alman72 wrote: |
| i would be interested in a cluster that has space on the far right for 3 or 4 of the small gauges like Skills used in his mod. I would like to keep my stock fuel gauge, and speedo, but the far right blank, or clock hole, is great space for a temp gauge or oil pressure, or volts, but you only get to choose one. |
I forgot to directly reply to your idea on the 3 or 4 of the smaller gauges on the right.
That is doable with the space that is there, although I would have to experiment in my 3D model to be sure.
The aesthetics would still be odd if you ask me. Plus, it's a lot more complicated to reproduce the original cluster for the original gauges than an entirely new panel that only supports modern gauges. It's doable, but would take a lot more effort, and developing a lot more parts. It would be quite expensive, because you have to create the polycarbonate lenses that are in the gauge cluster, plus the mechanism to hold them in place. VW used some stamped steel rings that twisted into place under some plastic parts of the cluster to retain them. I would probably have to come up with an alternative, as the tooling for stamped steel parts is expensive, just like the molds for injection molding something. I think the upfront costs would end up being so large, that it wouldn't be worth it anymore.
The thing that I have learned in this business, where manufacturing is concerned, is that VW did a lot of things that are very hard to reproduce, unless you can sell tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of them.
So, the design approach I'm taking is making something that is much simpler to manufacture, and won't require near as much upfront tooling cost. An injection mold for this stuff will still be very expensive, but I am investigating other options that might be cheaper. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| andrig's wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| andrig's wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| you need to demonstrate that the concept works and is highly reliable before anyone will consider it. We have enough trouble with tach needles bouncing (there are fixes), all the year variants of fuel gauges that are going bad and being way off when replaced, things like that. Until you can put one of your designs in YOUR bus, and maybe a couple friends, who can test it and show that it is reliable over 50,000 miles and 4 - 5 years, folks aren't going to go to the trouble of replacing things only to encounter even more problems and lack of support. Just my 2 cents worth. |
I understand the need to test things out. I have gauges coming, and I will certainly test them in a Bus.
Waiting four or five years probably isn't in the cards though. That seems to be a standard no one could make that is running a business. I'm not doing this on the side, this is my business.
Having said that, product development is not cheap either. So, I'm trying to gauge interest. If your interested, assuming all the testing is done, and I know everything works, which I have no doubts about, and there are enough people interested, than I will spend the time and money to fully develop the product, which of course will include testing.
I am confident in the gauges, as they are very well made, and I already have Speedhut gauges, and I already sell a gauge adapter for them for Split Window Buses. The adapter also works in the Karmann Ghia and Beetle, and I have a full dashboard product for Beetles.
I haven't encountered bouncing tach needles or any other weirdness to date.
I appreciate all feedback, that's for sure, but let's assume I do my job, and everything comes out great, in regards to testing. Would you be interested? |
Good luck. I would not touch such an involved system until you can prove to me it is good for 50,000 - 100,000 miles, AND ACCURATE. |
Okay, so you answered my question. You wouldn't be interested.
No company can wait through four or five years of reliability testing. The issue for this product would be the gauges themselves. I'm not making the gauges, Speedhut is doing that, and they should have already done their own reliability testing, and having used them myself, I know they work well and are reliable.
In terms of trusting this, it's whether you trust Speedhut to deliver a quality gauge product, and I think if you search around you will find lots of positive things said about their gauges.
So, again thanks for the feedback, every bit is welcome and helps me understand where the market might be for this. |
not every year bay uses the same sensors. The technology changed multiple times over the 12 years they were sold, and thereafter. The speedo is a mechanical drive. The gas gauge and the other senders vary - engines vary between years. Different people use different aftermarket head and oil temperature, and oil pressure senders, and their locations and mounting styles. You will have to meet these variables and test them. Folks here just aren't going to accept you saying, "please call Speedhut for support, I only make the cluster plate and labels for it." That is the point. Otherwise someone is going to want proof your system will fit and work in their bay.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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more specifically
my 1971 used a mechanical speedo, a VDO dual sender for oil screwed right into the T1 case. The fuel gauge sender was a tubular float that was held in with screws and a flat gasket (cork or cardboard style). The fuel gauge was direct voltage/resistance. Oil temp was taken off the sump plate or extended sump. Head temp was a sender bolted to the head. There was no voltage gauge. The fuel tank held 15.9 gallons when full. Max cruising speed stock was 68 MPH. The dash cluster had 4 levers and an early brake warning light.
my 1977 uses a mechanical speedo, a VDO dual sender screwed onto an extension hose that sits in a factory rubber boot designed to keep the cooling air from escaping the area in a T4 engine. The fuel gauge sender is the locking style with a float arm. The gasket is a large O-ring. The fuel gauge has an electronic voltage stabilizer with a bi-metallic element that controls the needle position. Oil Temp is taken off the taco plate underneath. I have two different taco plates, one that Whip618 made that is finned, and it takes a different size sender than the factory plate which has been modified for a sender. Head temp comes off #3 plug which is a 14mm spark plug. The voltage gauge has a separate wire from the battery / alternator connection running to it. It needs to be able to show up to at least 14.5 V. My 1977 fuel tank holds 14.6 gallons when full. Max stock cruising speed is 75 mph. The 77 dash cluster has only 3 levers, a different size brake warning light, and system than my 1971 did, and has a defrost position switch stop and light.
You will have to deal with these type variants because one size will not fit all. They will occur several more times over the years.
You will have to test your product across all different variants.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| andrig's wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| andrig's wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| you need to demonstrate that the concept works and is highly reliable before anyone will consider it. We have enough trouble with tach needles bouncing (there are fixes), all the year variants of fuel gauges that are going bad and being way off when replaced, things like that. Until you can put one of your designs in YOUR bus, and maybe a couple friends, who can test it and show that it is reliable over 50,000 miles and 4 - 5 years, folks aren't going to go to the trouble of replacing things only to encounter even more problems and lack of support. Just my 2 cents worth. |
I understand the need to test things out. I have gauges coming, and I will certainly test them in a Bus.
Waiting four or five years probably isn't in the cards though. That seems to be a standard no one could make that is running a business. I'm not doing this on the side, this is my business.
Having said that, product development is not cheap either. So, I'm trying to gauge interest. If your interested, assuming all the testing is done, and I know everything works, which I have no doubts about, and there are enough people interested, than I will spend the time and money to fully develop the product, which of course will include testing.
I am confident in the gauges, as they are very well made, and I already have Speedhut gauges, and I already sell a gauge adapter for them for Split Window Buses. The adapter also works in the Karmann Ghia and Beetle, and I have a full dashboard product for Beetles.
I haven't encountered bouncing tach needles or any other weirdness to date.
I appreciate all feedback, that's for sure, but let's assume I do my job, and everything comes out great, in regards to testing. Would you be interested? |
Good luck. I would not touch such an involved system until you can prove to me it is good for 50,000 - 100,000 miles, AND ACCURATE. |
Okay, so you answered my question. You wouldn't be interested.
No company can wait through four or five years of reliability testing. The issue for this product would be the gauges themselves. I'm not making the gauges, Speedhut is doing that, and they should have already done their own reliability testing, and having used them myself, I know they work well and are reliable.
In terms of trusting this, it's whether you trust Speedhut to deliver a quality gauge product, and I think if you search around you will find lots of positive things said about their gauges.
So, again thanks for the feedback, every bit is welcome and helps me understand where the market might be for this. |
not every year bay uses the same sensors. The technology changed multiple times over the 12 years they were sold, and thereafter. The speedo is a mechanical drive. The gas gauge and the other senders vary - engines vary between years. Different people use different aftermarket head and oil temperature, and oil pressure senders, and their locations and mounting styles. You will have to meet these variables and test them. Folks here just aren't going to accept you saying, "please call Speedhut for support, I only make the cluster plate and labels for it." That is the point. Otherwise someone is going to want proof your system will fit and work in their bay. |
I said I would test them. Speedhut gauges come with their own senders, it's included with the gauges. They are not a separate item that somehow you have to mix and match to get something that works. That's one of the reasons I use those gauges, because you don't have to guess about the senders. The only exception being the fuel level, and the fuel level is programmable to any sender, and it has presets for quite a few. I have even programmed their fuel level gauge to my fuel cell on my engine test stand, and it works perfectly. It's a very simple process to do the programming.
In terms of the oil pressure and oil temperature senders, I will probably make the appropriate adapter for them to fit the Type 1 engine through '71, and the Type IV from '72 on. Of course, if someone did an engine swap to a water cooled engine, I might have to think about that too.
Again, I'll test the stuff out. I never said anyone would have to call Speedhut for support either. I'd be more than happy to help, especially with the fuel level programming.
The rest is just make sure you have it wired correctly, which I will probably put in instructions or in a video, like I have done for other products. The gauges also come with the wiring harness, which may only have to be extended for a bus.
In any case, you seem upset, but I'm not sure why.
My apologies if anything I have said offended you.
Thanks for the feedback. |
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ivwshane
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1920
Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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I put maybe but if you can't change the scale of the gauges then it would be a no.
You'd probably have better luck using something like an ardruino to take all the sensor inputs and output them onto a screen that sits behind the existing gauge holes and customize the display/gauges that way.
_________________
77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| SGKent wrote: |
Good luck. I would not touch such an involved system until you can prove to me it is good for 50,000 - 100,000 miles, AND ACCURATE. |
steve... speedhut has been around for a while and have a fantastic support team. i use them because they are the only gauges worth a shit. vdo is fucking garbage, as is autometer. in fact, SH is within 3* of OEM with their temp gauges. that is better than the 7-10* i have found with others. plus they are made in the USA.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| ivwshane wrote: |
I put maybe but if you can't change the scale of the gauges then it would be a no.
You'd probably have better luck using something like an ardruino to take all the sensor inputs and output them onto a screen that sits behind the existing gauge holes and customize the display/gauges that way. |
That would be very complicated, although not outside of my abilities, and then the issue of reliability testing over a long period really becomes an issue.
Sorry that it's a no because of the scale of the gauges. Nothing I can do about that. For some people, with high performance drive trains, this will be necessary. |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
Good luck. I would not touch such an involved system until you can prove to me it is good for 50,000 - 100,000 miles, AND ACCURATE. |
steve... speedhut has been around for a while and have a fantastic support team. i use them because they are the only gauges worth a shit. vdo is fucking garbage, as is autometer. in fact, SH is within 3* of OEM with their temp gauges. that is better than the 7-10* i have found with others. plus they are made in the USA. |
I concur, and it's actually quite hard to get accurate gauges these days. Many gauges are inexpensive for a reason 
I'm only using Speedhut gauges in my cars now. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| andrig's wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
Good luck. I would not touch such an involved system until you can prove to me it is good for 50,000 - 100,000 miles, AND ACCURATE. |
steve... speedhut has been around for a while and have a fantastic support team. i use them because they are the only gauges worth a shit. vdo is fucking garbage, as is autometer. in fact, SH is within 3* of OEM with their temp gauges. that is better than the 7-10* i have found with others. plus they are made in the USA. |
I concur, and it's actually quite hard to get accurate gauges these days. Many gauges are inexpensive for a reason
I'm only using Speedhut gauges in my cars now. |
I am not so concerned about the gauge as I am the senders. If I have to program their gauges to different senders then it still leaves me queasy. Someone else can be the guinea pig on each year and configuration. It is a lot of work to replace a perfectly functioning dash and heater control system.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| andrig's wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
Good luck. I would not touch such an involved system until you can prove to me it is good for 50,000 - 100,000 miles, AND ACCURATE. |
steve... speedhut has been around for a while and have a fantastic support team. i use them because they are the only gauges worth a shit. vdo is fucking garbage, as is autometer. in fact, SH is within 3* of OEM with their temp gauges. that is better than the 7-10* i have found with others. plus they are made in the USA. |
I concur, and it's actually quite hard to get accurate gauges these days. Many gauges are inexpensive for a reason
I'm only using Speedhut gauges in my cars now. |
I am not so concerned about the gauge as I am the senders. If I have to program their gauges to different senders then it still leaves me queasy. Someone else can be the guinea pig on each year and configuration. It is a lot of work to replace a perfectly functioning dash and heater control system. |
You don't have to program the gauges to the senders. I'm not sure where you are getting that.
You do have to program the fuel level gauge to the stock sender, since the Ohm range is not one of their presets. It's very simple to do, and I have done it myself.
All the other gauges have their own senders, and don't have to be programmed. They will just work as long as you wire them up correctly.
They do have warning lights, and you have to program when you want the warning light to come on, but again, it's a very simple process. There is a button on the gauge for it, and the procedure is quite simple. |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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I would not be interested in the setup, andrig, but not because it is not cool or interesting. It's that I already have a working setup and do not have a compelling need to improve it.
That said, I love the innovations that are possible with 3D printing, so I have a couple of suggestions regarding improvements on the original design.
1. I have never understood why VW recessed the gauges so deeply into the panel. You could play with the idea of recessing them just cm or so... maybe?
2. The way the panel attaches to the dash has been a source of frustration for every bus owner. Those damned clips sitting right above the unshielded hot wires in the light switches... ugh! How about integrating a design where... just spitballin' here... the gauge cluster would be attached at the top with a cam screw, and would fit into the bottom with fingers. So that to install it you would drop the lower edge in first to engage the fingers, and then secure the top edge with cams that could be turned with a phillips screwdriver or maybe even with the fingers. Just some ideas...
Keep up the innovations!
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| jtauxe wrote: |
I would not be interested in the setup, andrig, but not because it is not cool or interesting. It's that I already have a working setup and do not have a compelling need to improve it.
That said, I love the innovations that are possible with 3D printing, so I have a couple of suggestions regarding improvements on the original design.
1. I have never understood why VW recessed the gauges so deeply into the panel. You could play with the idea of recessing them just cm or so... maybe?
2. The way the panel attaches to the dash has been a source of frustration for every bus owner. Those damned clips sitting right above the unshielded hot wires in the light switches... ugh! How about integrating a design where... just spitballin' here... the gauge cluster would be attached at the top with a cam screw, and would fit into the bottom with fingers. So that to install it you would drop the lower edge in first to engage the fingers, and then secure the top edge with cams that could be turned with a phillips screwdriver or maybe even with the fingers. Just some ideas...
Keep up the innovations! |
On point one, after I receive my gauges and test fit them, I can definitely look at that. Right now, I have it so the lens will be approximately the exact same distance as the stock lens, but that is very easily changed. In fact, by recessing them less, the cost of manufacture goes down, at least just a little. So, yes, that is definitely something I'll look at.
On point two, I like this idea. If I proceed with this idea towards production, I will definitely consider an alternate installation idea, and your idea is a good one. Those 3.9 mm x 38 mm oval head screws are nearly impossible to purchase anywhere too. So, if you lose one or two, you might be screwed. It would be a fairly easy design change in the model as well.
Thanks for the encouragement. So far the responses in the poll haven't been great, but there have been so few that I can't really make heads or tails of it just now.
We will see. I may go ahead with the development regardless of the feedback, but just do it on a build to order basis, and test out the market that way.
Thanks again for the suggestions, I will definitely look at both, and the first right when I get my test gauges, which should be in a few weeks, as my artwork was sent back to me for approval early this week, and I approved it. So, we will see what it looks like. If there is enough activity on this thread, then I'll update with some photos of the gauges fitted, and maybe I'll spend some time to pain the cluster black so people get a better idea of how it will look. |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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Just wanted to also post a link to my Facebook video here. It may make things a little more clear about my thoughts on this potential product.
https://fb.watch/3jZqk3PEpl/
It's around 18 minutes long, and may help some people, and I will track and respond to any comments on the video as well. |
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edhnb
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2011
Posts: 229
Location: El Dorado Hills, California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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I like it. and you have some other cool products on your channel too.
I would also post this to the various Bay Window forums on facebook to get a feel for demand.
_________________
1977 Asi Riviera |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| edhnb wrote: |
I like it. and you have some other cool products on your channel too.
I would also post this to the various Bay Window forums on facebook to get a feel for demand. |
I wasn't aware of the Bay Window forums on Facebook. I'll check it out.
Thanks. |
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camit34
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 1567
Location: Commerce City CO
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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Sent you a PM
I am interested in going with this Speedhut gauge and your design looks great.
https://www.speedhut.com/ecommerce/product/2944/4-1-2
_________________
In search of a Vanagon
1971 Westy (SOLD)
1971 Deluxe (SOLD)
1967 Freedom Camper (SOLD) |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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If one has a water-cooled engine, then both the water (i.e. engine-coolant) and oil temperature gauges will be appropriate. The air-cooled engines require both oil and cylinder-head temperature gauges.
The Brazilian-built, 1997~2012 air-cooled & water-cooled “bay-window” VW Type 2 T2c have modernised versions of the instrument panel; especially the later water-cooled versions, which has a speedometer with integral fuel gauge, similar to that of the air-cooled VW Type 1 Beetle (Bug in USA parlance!?!). If the Brazilian standard of driving is anything like that in various second-world & third-world countries I have visited, there should be numerous second-hand salvaged VW Type 2 T2c instrument panels available for sale.
Considering that factory-standard, 1968~79 VW 1600 Type 2s & 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2s have maximum rated speeds of 68 mph & 78 mph respectively, having a 120 mph speedometer would be inappropriate (i.e. less than 2/3 of the scale would be used) and even 78 mph would be quite scary (and possibly illegal too); especially if there are gusting cross-winds or buses, coaches & lorries passing close by in either direction. I also doubt whether there are many 1968~79 VW Type 2 drivers who would even contemplate revving their engines as far as 6000 rpm, yet alone 8000 rpm! There is a 100 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit International, dual-scale 0~85 mph & 0~130 km/h speedometer, that would be much more appropriate for the 1968~79 VW Type 2s and VDO Cockpit 0~6000 rpm tachometers are also available.
VDO 85 mph & 135 km/h speedometer
https://www.vdo-instruments.com/instruments/by-series/cockpit-international/speedometer.html
https://www.egauges.com/Speedometers-electronic-s/22192.htm
https://www.egauges.com/85-MPH-130-KpH-Speedo-4-p/437-957.htm
https://www.egauges.com/VW-Type1-Cable-to-16-Pulse-Programmable-Speedo-Kit-p/sn16vw.htm
In principle, there would be sufficient space in a substitute instrument panel, for a central 100 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit International, 0~85 mph speedometer and four 52 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit gauges on either side. One could also have a matching supplementary instrument panel, with up to six 52 mm diameter, VDO Cockpit gauges in the dashboard centre, where a radio would normally be located. The radio / cassette-player could be mounted under the dashboard, between the hand-brake lever and the steering column, where it is easier to reach.
Interim aluminium supplementary six-gauge panel with two changeover switches
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=292937
This and other mock-ups I’ve tried, suggest that one could fit into a substitute instrument panel, a 100 mm diameter speedometer, and two after-market 100 mm diameter instrument housings, incorporating either three or four gauges with warning lights (if they were made), instead of the two 80 mm diameter instrument housings you propose, incorporating just two gauges. I have reason to believe they are available from North Hollywood Speedo for the Porsche 911 & 912 and VW-Porsche 914. It might also be worth looking at a VDO Combi gauge, which is a single large-diameter housing incorporating four separate gauges, of which I have seen one featured, with gauges for fuel-level, voltage, oil-temperature & oil-pressure, but other combinations might also be available.
North Hollywood Speedo
https://www.nhspeedometer.com/
https://www.nhspeedometer.com/contactus
VDO Combi Gauges
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=vdo+combi+gau...BasicHover
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&a...ajaxhist=0
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&a...amp;sim=11
Many British & European cars of 1960s and 1970s vintage have 100 mm or 4 inch diameter instrument housings incorporating two or three gauges, including those found in the FWD Triumph 1300, FWD & RWD Triumph 1500 and RWD Triumph 2000. I have a 100 mm diameter Smith’s triple-gauge unit (fuel-level, water-temperature & ammeter) from a FWD Triumph 1300, that is of the same style as the original factory-fitted instruments in my 1974 Triumph 1300 Toledo, all of which will go in my substitute instrument panel having a speedometer, tachometer, seven gauges & warning-light cluster.
I suspect that North Hollywood Speedo, New Vintage and other instrumentation suppliers in the USA and elsewhere, also offer custom features for gauge faces, pointers & bezels; offering gauges in a variety of OEM styles for various vehicle models. This being the case, one could probably also commission various types of exotic supplementary gauges to complement the existing factory-fitted 1968~79 VW Type 2 instruments or even the already quite extensive series of VDO Cockpit gauges. For example, people like me might desire matching VDO-Cockpit-style gauges for remote-shunt ammeter, fuel-air ratio, atmospheric pressure / altitude, gyro-compass (as used in WW2 German battle tanks) and pitch & roll angles, that have yet to be offered by VDO!?!
Being a skinflint of Scottish descent (I also spent most of my childhood in Dundee, Scotland), I am ultra-careful with money, so I shall be doing something similar to what I described in paragraph 2, using mostly second-hand or heavily-discounted NOS gauges. Apart from the three VDO Cockpit gauges (i.e. oil-pressure, oil-temperature & cylinder-head temperature) that were bought new (cost unknown) by my father in 1988/89, and the recently purchased NOS VDO Cockpit alternator-sensing 0~6000 rpm tachometer, costing a whopping £25, all of my VDO Cockpit gauges cost no more than £15 each and some cost considerably less. The two 60 mm diameter, customisable Lucas 8-segment warning-light clusters, were also relatively cheap.
The thick-oak-faced 20 mm plywood (off-cuts of high-end flooring boards, salvaged from a waste skip) instrument-panels, heating & ventilation levers’ panel and matching glove-box cover, will be rebated using my Black & Decker router, to recess the gauges into the panels and recess the panels into the dashboard apertures, conforming to the curvature of the dashboard face.
By having a separate small panel associated with the heating & ventilation levers, the main instrument panel and supplementary instrument panel, with multi-way electrical-connecter blocks, can be easily removed from the dashboard without disturbing the levers, for gauge and/or warning-light maintenance or to gain access to things behind the instrument panel, such as the main dashboard-mounted switches or the windscreen-wiper motor & linkage.
I have yet to finalise the instrument layout, but I envisage the main instrument panel having a centrally positioned, 100 mm diameter, early-to-mid-1970s vintage, VW Type 1 Beetle speedometer (with integral fuel gauge & seven warning lights), with two 52 mm diameter VDO Cockpit gauges on either side and each of the two 60 mm diameter, Lucas 8-segment warning-light clusters outboard of those on either side; maximising visibility through the steering wheel. Including six 52 mm diameter VDO Cockpit gauges in the supplementary instrument panel, there will be a total of 10+1 gauges in addition to the speedometer and at least 23 warning lights.
There will be space for other warning lights (e.g. brake-circuit failure warning light - VW Part No. 113 919 233 B) and/or changeover switches; the latter of which can be used with a single gauge, to select multiple gauge-senders in turn. For example, the single cylinder-head temperature gauge could be used to monitor up to four separate cylinders, using a two-pole, four-throw, rotary changeover switch. A similar arrangement could be used with an exhaust-gas temperature gauge.
'How To' & 'Handy Hints' > Retro-fitting supplementary gauges
http://forums.kombiclub.com/showthread.php?t=19396
Kombi Club > Gauges you can't live without
http://forums.kombiclub.com/showthread.php?t=20491
Accessories/Memorabilia > Gauges
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=181395
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=181395&start=80
Bay Window Bus > Ammeter wiring - Late Bay
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=254914
Accessories/Memorabilia > Upgrading warning-light function & provision
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257858
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Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net
Last edited by NASkeet on Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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andrig's
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Louisville, CO
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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Your post is very long, so I don't want to comment on every little detail, but let me comment on a few of the points.
Flat aluminum panels look poor to me, whether they are in the center or in the place of the original cluster. The entire dash has a very specific curve to it, which actually took me quite some time to replicate exactly.
My personal design aesthetic is to create something that would look as much like it came from the factory as possible, but be brand new, with modern instruments. If someone want to explore used parts from Brazil, or crafting their own panels, this product is not for them. It won't be inexpensive.
As for VDO gauges, my personal experience has been good with oil pressure and temperature gauges, but I have had interesting problems with their GPS speedometer, and their tachometers are very sensitive to the gauge of the wire, and almost always read incorrectly in a rear engine car due to the length of the wire required. The cylinder head temperature gauge, if you can even find one, is really terrible, most of the time reading some 50 to 100 degrees off the actual head temp.
I also have just found that the Speedhut gauges are very accurate, and they come with wiring and senders as part of the package. You don't have to purchase them separately.
In regards to the safety and appropriateness of a 120 mph speedo, I would just say, this potential product is not really for someone that has a bone stock bus. It's for someone that is customizing already. Why do anything other than the stock gauges and cluster if your bus is completely stock?
So, my audience for this product is people who have spent some money on a nice engine upgrade, and suspension upgrade making regular highway speeds and beyond safe.
I own a 1986 Doka Syncro, and in stock trim that vehicle shouldn't really be driven much past 65. But I have a 2.7 liter engine that makes double stock, and I have suspension upgrades that make it safe. It still gets moved around a little on the highway in strong cross winds, but the suspension is so much better than it just takes a small amount of correction in the steering, and it's perfectly fine.
So, again, the customers I would be targeting would have invested quite a bit in their bay window, making it considerable safer. |
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trailrunnerbus
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2019
Posts: 26
Location: flyover state
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| yourmom wrote: |
registered member for 2 years and has the place pinned Laughing. |
There's more people there than there are here. All of the jaded 'baywindow owners are cheap a-holes' type folks here ran them all off of thesamba over the years and made this place mostly an echo chamber for a handful of soapboxers.
they are the ones more eager to do custom stuff as well, looking for the next product to try out or customize with.
Last edited by trailrunnerbus on Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Idea for Bay Window Bus Product - Would like some feedback |
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| trailrunnerbus wrote: |
There's more people there than there are here. All of the jaded 'baywindow owners are cheap a-holes' type folks here ran them all off of thesamba over the years and made this place mostly an echo chamber for a handful of soapboxers.
they are the ones more eager to do custom stuff as well, looking for the next product to try out or customize with. |
too funny...
registered member for 2 years and has the place pinned 
ALL vw owners are cheap pricks.i fall into that category too. they'd rather spend 8 weeks of time trying to cobble something together than open the wallet.... pretty well known fact. even in the FB groups people get banged DAILY for being cheap....and honestly FB is a WAY more brutal platform than the samba will ever be.
no one got "run off" ever. if they left, they left on their own. some of the soap box preachers you speak of just want it done right and do their best to guide people down the same path they had been on.
also some modifications posted on the FB groups get shit on just as hard or harder than what goes on here. say what you will about the samba, it's forums and it's members but NO WHERE on this planet is there a more passionate group of vw people and the information here is in a class of its own. try to find a post on FB...even 2 days old it's about impossible.
funny, i see people on FB shit all over the samba, yet when someone needs info, the samba is always linked
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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