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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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calebmelvin
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006
Posts: 3140
Location: Seattle, WA
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1646
Location: Indiana
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 Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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I wonder what this will do to collector car values over time , if for instance a brand new old busses become available.
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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fear not, CARB will crush this before it even gets going
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1646
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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Evidently they would have to meet current emissions. So new old busses with a modern engine.
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1646
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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I could see a company cranking out bus parts, selling them to other companies to build, and pretty soon there’s 100,000 new busses on the road. Maybe even the oem’s getting in on the action reproducing old vehicle parts. Could be the golden age for enthusiasts.
Unfortunately I’d probably have to wait 30 years until I could afford to buy a rusted out reproduced hulk
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 7934
Location: north o' the border
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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the term that they have 'to resemble' a car over 25 seems rather vague to me and could result in some awful replica designs...
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"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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typ914
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2012
Posts: 230
Location: Atlanta, Ga
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| The other issue is going to copy right laws. Some manufacturers are already licensing cars and parts. Only time will tell. |
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Muftobration
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2014
Posts: 90
Location: Acton, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| Onceler wrote: |
I could see a company cranking out bus parts, selling them to other companies to build, and pretty soon there’s 100,000 new busses on the road. Maybe even the oem’s getting in on the action reproducing old vehicle parts. Could be the golden age for enthusiasts.
Unfortunately I’d probably have to wait 30 years until I could afford to buy a rusted out reproduced hulk |
Manufacturers are limited to 5000 units per year, so it would take 20 years before 100,000 new busses could be produced. From the article:
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| The new law allows kit cars and replicas to be produced so long as they resemble a vehicle that is at least 25 years old. Manufacturers are limited to 5,000 vehicles a year to qualify as low volume. |
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1985 Westfalia full camper - Bostig v2.0 with several updates |
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kirk1015
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 281
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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I have this feeling VW will never let this happen. They are protective of the Beetle and the Bus for obvious reasons. Unless they build them themselves, which is slim to none. Besides, VW is trying to go green with the I.D. 3 and 4. They wouldn't want this to overshadow those models.
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Jim Douglas....I am Not. |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9913
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| typ914 wrote: |
| The other issue is going to copy right laws. Some manufacturers are already licensing cars and parts. Only time will tell. |
Volkswagen has a three dimensional trademark on their previously produced bodies. Anyone selling a complete new body can expect litigation, which they will lose. I would expect most other manufacturers have similar trademarks.
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1646
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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There’s already a company building the bodies. They could build as many as they want just like they’re already doing.
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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I imagine someone, somewhere, building 5,000 units a year, of vans powered by Subaru Gears flipped running gear.
2.5 liter, Subaru Powered 'syncro' type vans, fully decked out in GoWesty Catalog finery, with Burley Motor Sport underpinnings, T3 Technique wheels and bushings.....
Think of it, a Samba Built van! Perfect in every way!
Making use of the ENTIRE communities vendor products!
Hell, could even get the ball rolling by buying up all the old, unusable vans for the VIN numbers.....
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1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33991
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| Lind wrote: |
| typ914 wrote: |
| The other issue is going to copy right laws. Some manufacturers are already licensing cars and parts. Only time will tell. |
Volkswagen has a three dimensional trademark on their previously produced bodies. Anyone selling a complete new body can expect litigation, which they will lose. I would expect most other manufacturers have similar trademarks. |
Individual parts (hoods, fenders, etc) are probably unrestricted, even if the overall body has some protection. It varies by country, but I think GB and USA both forbid manufacturers from prohibiting "patent parts". |
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kpf
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 850
Location: California, US
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| Quote: |
| The completed replica vehicles also have to meet current emissions standards. |
Current standards... not only does this rule out older/junkyard Subarus, etc., but it requires a manufacturer to keep up with regulations as they change each year. Here's a good example from the company that wants to build replica DeLoreans:
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...in 2015 our planned engine had a life-cycle of emissions compliance through 2022. We had hoped to get into production by 2017 and get 3-4 years out of it before having to take on the engineering for a new powertrain. It’s believed that this engine has been extended through perhaps 2024 now, but it doesn’t seem like a good idea to plan around an engine so near its end-of-life.
That said, with EV’s becoming more mainstream, we’ve been considering switching to an all-electric as the future. It certainly makes for an easier path through emissions maze which still looms large over any internal combustion engine. |
https://www.newdelorean.com/blog/
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9913
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Lind wrote: |
| typ914 wrote: |
| The other issue is going to copy right laws. Some manufacturers are already licensing cars and parts. Only time will tell. |
Volkswagen has a three dimensional trademark on their previously produced bodies. Anyone selling a complete new body can expect litigation, which they will lose. I would expect most other manufacturers have similar trademarks. |
Individual parts (hoods, fenders, etc) are probably unrestricted, even if the overall body has some protection. It varies by country, but I think GB and USA both forbid manufacturers from prohibiting "patent parts". |
Patents expire, and all the patents for air cooled VWs have long since expired. Trademarks can be renewed forever. That is why they trademark the shape. All the pieces and parts are fine to sell, but a complete replica body or functional vehicle as a new or reproduction car is a violation of Volkswagen's trademark. They do look for these things, and they will shut it down. The companies that sell all the panels always display a incomplete body, which can be finished by the customer. Anyone can pretty much built a complete reproduction bus at this point, but they just can't sell reproduction Buses. Some might slip thorough the cracks, but there will be no company publicly selling reproduction VWs in the USA or the western world.
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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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So, what about:
Company buys old vans (like GoWesty does),
Uses old VIN Numbers to apply to a Replica Body, and part out/ dispose of said old van?
Would that senario cross any Red Lines?
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
When All Else Fails: Lather, Rinse, Repeat! |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| Team WorldTour wrote: |
So, what about:
Company buys old vans (like GoWesty does),
Uses old VIN Numbers to apply to a Replica Body, and part out/ dispose of said old van?
Would that senario cross any Red Lines? |
You would go to jail in my State.
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.ssS! |
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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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I mean, that's what happens with old model t cars and the like, right?
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
When All Else Fails: Lather, Rinse, Repeat! |
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kpf
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 850
Location: California, US
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Replica cars now possible! |
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| Team WorldTour wrote: |
| I mean, that's what happens with old model t cars and the like, right? |
A car constructed with a body-on-frame architecture will usually have a VIN on the chassis and a VIN on the body. I believe in some states the VIN on the chassis is all that matters, so you can swap the body with a better old one or with a new reproduction body. In other states that may not be legal. Newer cars that use a unibody architecture have no separate chassis, so it seems there would only be one VIN and so there would be no way to swap bodies.
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