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Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L
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briways
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

1983.5 Waterboxer 1.9L Campmobile


Drove all around the USA but recently came from Key West, FL to Kentucky, and now am in the Poconos, PA. In Kentucky, right after Tennessee. I tightened my Alternator belt as it was loose, probably because I still haven't drilled out those stubs, but hot to cold weather change. Then I ran out of gas on the highway around the same time.

After running out of fuel the accelerator would stutter if I pressed it too far down or not enough. Only made it to PA with keeping it on a sweet spot. So I replaced my fuel pump, fuel filter, battery, spark plugs, plugs, rotor, distributor cap, and both fuel pump/injector relays.

I am getting it to turn but not getting it running. I have an extra spare ECU. Should I toss that in? Or do you think it could be fuel lines that need to be replaced or it's just a pesky ground cable somewhere? 02 sensor? I had a radiator hose leak close to the Airbox area recently, might have messed up some wires.

It is 10 degrees here, cold isn't helping I bet. Any advice is appreciated. First time posting on here, apologizes if I posted incorrectly.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Welcome to Pennsylvania!
Your timing is great with a Nor'Easter today and into tomorrow.

When you pulled your fuel pump and filter, what did the fuel look like?

Was it clear or muddy and rusty looking?

Running out of fuel is a key clue to fixing this problem, cause and effect.

Your tank outlet may be clogged, at least restricted. Did fuel come out when you removed the pump?

Try running it with a loose/removed gas cap..... Any better?

If any dirt somehow got past the fuel filter, it may have lodged in the injector nozzles.

Pull the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator, it should be dry, suck on it, it should develop vacuum, not fill your mouth with gasoline.

Just spitballing here.......

Dave
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briways
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

When you pulled your fuel pump and filter, what did the fuel look like?

Seemed clear based on the snow around me.

Did fuel come out when you removed the pump?

Yes, seems as if im getting fuel past the pump/filter.

Try running it with a loose/removed gas cap..... Any better?

No difference

If any dirt somehow got past the fuel filter, it may have lodged in the injector nozzles.

This might be the right track

Pull the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator, it should be dry, suck on it, it should develop vacuum, not fill your mouth with gasoline.

I tried this and couldn't get any gas. I need to find my mini bleeder/syphon

Do you know what size fuel pressure gauge fits on the fuel line bleeder tee?


Here is a video of what is heard whlist cranking




https://bgegis.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/VANAGON.mp4
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Doesn't sound like it is making any kind of effort to start at all, maybe just one hit over the length of your video. Does your exhaust pipe smell of raw fuel after you have cranked your engine?

I would try a quality fuel injection cleaner dumped into your gas tank, preferable while the pump is running so it gets mixed around.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

You need to verify if you have spark.

You may have done something like disconnected a ground and now the coil isn't firing. After that, remove the injectors and verify they are spitting fuel.
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briways
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

The exhaust pipe tip does slightly smell like raw gas but hard to tell. I could get some injector cleaner. Or should I just clean the injectors directly?

I do have spark. I haven't pulled the injectors to check yet.

Could it be the hall sensor? Fuel lines? o2?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

The injectors are one 10mm bolt to pull. Cut a water bottle in half and set them inside it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

your running out of fuel could have stirred some junk up in the tank.... or you may have water in the fuel.

i would try and get a fuel sample into a clean bottle and see if you can tell if you have any water in it. 1/2 a soda bottle should tell you if you have any water in the tank, it will sink to the bottom
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

I filled up a soda bottle full of the gas from a splice before the fuel pump. The results look clear of water and rust in this photo:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

https://bgegis.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/cleargas.jpeg


I didn't have any carb cleaner but I had starter fluid and WD40 that I attempted to clean the injectors with (I am sort of stranded out in PA in a larger than usual snow storm, no 711 delivery or quick amazon purchases here). I tested a side for spray, will do the other side tomorrow. Ordered fuel lines from Vanagain and ordered new injectors with seals from EWParts with overnight shipping. Here is the video of the spray and crank:

https://bgegis.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/sprayandcrank.mp4

I swapped in my spare ECU just for kicks and giggles and no luck.

I saw whilst removing the injectors on the air box side that the fuel line running under the alternator looked a bit squished or not in an ideal position. I am going to replace that line when it arrives. Wish those knobs on the engine block for the alternator never broke off, I should probably drill those out, so the alternator stays a bit more steady.

Anything electrical that is obvious that could be holding me up? A weak replacement fuel pump? Anyone know the fuel pressure gauge size that fits in the tee or should I just toss one inline?

All advice is appreciated! Thanks!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Have you verified that you have a nice strong spark?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Have you verified that you have a nice strong spark?


Yes
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

When the POS 1.9L in my 1983 1/2 wouldn't start at 0F in Colorado one time. we eventually had someone with a pickup pull us down the street and after a half block or so it cleared itself, started, and ran fine.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
When the POS 1.9L in my 1983 1/2 wouldn't start at 0F in Colorado one time. we eventually had someone with a pickup pull us down the street and after a half block or so it cleared itself, started, and ran fine.


Was this in a manual? Did you run out of fuel shortly before the rado experience? Explain in specific detail of your methodology behind this running fine success.

Cheers m8
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Briways, congrats, you just camoed? Through one of the biggest Nir'Rasters we've had for years!

I used to live in the Poconos and am South if you now.

Sending you a PM ......

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

"After running out of fuel the accelerator would stutter if I pressed it too far down or not enough. Only made it to PA with keeping it on a sweet spot. So I replaced my fuel pump, fuel filter, battery, spark plugs, plugs, rotor, distributor cap, and both fuel pump/injector relays.

I am getting it to turn but not getting it running."


You ran out of gas, but then it was running, but like crap.
You then changed parts and now it won't run at all......

I think you sucked up crap from your tank, great, you changed the fuel filter, gas looks good, I'd go back and verify you got the ignition wires installed correctly, you have the correct rotor and cap, and verify the wires are correct for the cap and spark plugs.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Is it firing and running fora few seconds on starter fluid ? That confirms spark and timing
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

I saw no fuel spray in that video?
Was I supposed to and I missed it?

No spray= no gas = no start.

Just to clarify..........
It ran poorly, you put on a bucket load of new parts, now it doesn't run at all?

Now, why no spray? Did you wire the new pump backwards?
If you do that on DC, you reverse the spin direction.

Is the new pump relay any good? Do you hear or feel the pump running?

Did you mount the pump backwards? (Unlikely with port size differences)

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
I saw no fuel spray in that video?
Was I supposed to and I missed it?

No spray= no gas = no start.


Thank you, I was about to say that. Looks like the injectors are completely clogged/broken. Even if new injectors don't fix this, they are certainly 1 part contributing to the issue. In fact, they are so non working I would be checking the engine harness for the electrical signal to fire. I haven't seen such completely clogged injectors before. I would replace them, but I would also verify that they are getting signal to fire.

If you want to add a fuel pressure gauge to the T, just use a short 1" piece of fuel hose between it and the gauge. There isn't a gauge that screws into that little hole. That's why the T has a ferrule at the end.

Also: holy shit dude what did I say previously. "CUT A WATER BOTTLE IN HALF AND SET THEM INSIDE IT." Do not, under any circumstances, repeat your exercise of having injectors fire randomly across the engine bay. That is 1 spark away from having a lot more issues. And there are a lot of sparks on that side, like the starter or the alternator. Or be even safer and use 2 water bottles and have the injectors jammed inside.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

Running out of fuel may or may not have been causal but it is irrelevant to troubleshooting. Get that out of the way of the grey matter

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, which translates as your proctologist put his ego in the mail and it is more fun to visit him than fix your Van Bus
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L Reply with quote

briways wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
When the POS 1.9L in my 1983 1/2 wouldn't start at 0F in Colorado one time. we eventually had someone with a pickup pull us down the street and after a half block or so it cleared itself, started, and ran fine.


Was this in a manual? Did you run out of fuel shortly before the rado experience? Explain in specific detail of your methodology behind this running fine success.

Cheers m8


Ratty engine with almost no compression on its first road trip, just wouldn't start in the combined cold and elevation found in Colorado. The point is that a tow start may work where other efforts fail.

Your running out of fuel may have accentuated the problems that ethanol laced fuel is known to cause, both your injectors and valve stems may be sticky. I have found that adding a quart of 2-cycle oil or synthetic motor oil to a full tank of gas can get you back on the road in this case, and may or may not make for a lasting fix.
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