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sanhozeezee Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2019 Posts: 171 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:21 pm Post subject: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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Somewhat of a bus newb here and looking for recommendations for an ideal motor and trans (mostly concerned about motor size) set up for all around driving. i'd like to be able to cruise at 70ish and go up hills without getting honked at by prius drivers etc.
Right now i have a 1641 dp motor in a 67 split. according to my paperwork it's got a performance swing axle 12-volt and a 3.88 r&p and stock rbg's. it goes ok but would love to make it more drivable.
a friend said 1915's are bullet proof while another says a low compression 2180 is the way to go.
Thoughts? |
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aa390392 Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2007 Posts: 3602 Location: So.Cal
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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You have a bus, it is what it is...nothing is certian, what you have sounds sound..there met to cruise. ????????
Trying to bite my lip. _________________ .
getting grumpy & less tolerant!
55 ragtop
56 delux sedan
56 Kabriolet |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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sanhozeezee wrote: |
Right now i have a 1641 dp motor in a 67 split. according to my paperwork it's got a performance swing axle 12-volt and a 3.88 r&p and stock rbg's. it goes ok but would love to make it more drivable. |
More drive-able how?? Right now it is like you are talking about vanilla ice cream and you say you want something more eatable.... _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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sanhozeezee Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2019 Posts: 171 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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Quote: |
More drive-able how?? |
my main issue is driving up moderate grades. i want to be able drive up without having to down shift to 3rd and crawl up. it'd be nice to be able to cruise at 70 on the hwy too. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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sanhozeezee wrote: |
Quote: |
More drive-able how?? |
my main issue is driving up moderate grades. i want to be able drive up without having to down shift to 3rd and crawl up. it'd be nice to be able to cruise at 70 on the hwy too. |
Then you will want more torque, which means more crankshaft stroke. To do 70 MPH if you want the engine to last long, will require higher gearing like a 3.44 R&P and maybe a beetle .89 fourth gear.
As for how big of engine, that is too much a personal taste. Which is why some have gone with Subaru or even Corvair engines.
Personally seen that a 1776cc is doable with small pistons, bigger stroke, and that way you do can keep the engine with the OG carb, intake and muffler. Then not having to cut and weaken the original VW engine case for bigger cylinders or have to spend up to $1,000 just for a new aftermarket beefed up case. Known too many folks that had the original VW engine cut for bigger cylinders and ended up with a cracked case forward of #3 cylinder, spewing oil all over the flywheel. Making for a nice slippery slipping clutch. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13269 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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I would just start by adding dual carbs and a header and muffler. you may find that it's enough. stock bus did 65 mph all day no problem |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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A stroker for pulling hills.
Last year i built a 2017 (90.5x78.4) with fuel injection for a Split Westy. The customer reports he has no problems keeping up with traffic or climbing long hills. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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sub-hatchtim Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2006 Posts: 2610 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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I have large nut boxes with a freeway flyer center section powered by a 1915
I'm heavily debating busting open the engine and making it into a stroker _________________ 58' pg/sg silo fridge westy
58 Dove blue singlecab
76 911S |
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2type2 Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2002 Posts: 975 Location: SW Colorado
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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What Glenn said. My '66 has a 2017 and FF transmission. There aren't any hills in FL, but when I hit a high bridge its like its not there, no slowing down ,often pull it in 4th. IMHO it's more fun to drive in the "sweet spot", that is, where my bus likes to be, so about 63 is for easy cruising. If you're behind me, enjoy looking at an old bus or go around! _________________ "A life of peace and happiness depends on your own gratefulness" |
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srfndoc Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 3274 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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2type2 wrote: |
What Glenn said. My '66 has a 2017 and FF transmission. There aren't any hills in FL, but when I hit a high bridge its like its not there, no slowing down ,often pull it in 4th. IMHO it's more fun to drive in the "sweet spot", that is, where my bus likes to be, so about 63 is for easy cruising. If you're behind me, enjoy looking at an old bus or go around! |
What R&P and 4th gear are you running? Still have RGB's? _________________ RPM=(MPH*336* (R&P*4th*1.26))/Tire Diameter in inches |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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The 3.88 RP is killing you with a stock motor. Need a 4.12 instead |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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chrisflstf wrote: |
The 3.88 RP is killing you with a stock motor. Need a 4.12 instead |
Only way a 3.875 R&P will kill a stock motor is if one lugs or over revs the engine, and that can be easily done with any of the stock split screen R&Ps. Driver input does affect engine longevity. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9913 Location: idaho
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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Have you considered a chevy van? They cruise up hills fast.
If you can't handle 3rd gear on hills, move somewhere flatter.
big motors are big money and big headaches. Stock motors are slow and reliable (and not all that cheap either.) If you can't handle driving 60-65 most of the time, you will put a huge amount into chasing those extra 5-10mphs.
Your drivetrain is already overgeared, so it will be a dog, especially at the top end. Always go up with power first before gearing. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
. |
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Tizian Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2015 Posts: 383 Location: Hamburg, Germany
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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Holy!
I drive the Autobahn with 44 DIN HPs!
Almost everyone is happy to see these busses and are waving at you. So where is the point?
OK, there might be some stupid truckdrivers honking at you on steep hills - but hey, who cares?
Drive and be happy!
Cheers! |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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Lind wrote: |
Have you considered a chevy van? They cruise up hills fast.
If you can't handle 3rd gear on hills, move somewhere flatter.
big motors are big money and big headaches. Stock motors are slow and reliable (and not all that cheap either.) If you can't handle driving 60-65 most of the time, you will put a huge amount into chasing those extra 5-10mphs.
Your drivetrain is already overgeared, so it will be a dog, especially at the top end. Always go up with power first before gearing. |
We like stock too - just never go over 55 mph and that stocker will last a lifetime - our '60 single cab has a rebuilt 1500, done in 1988 and still going strong - Also have a Ford camper-van - best camper, we ever had - z _________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
We like stock too - just never go over 55 mph and that stocker will last a lifetime - our '60 single cab has a rebuilt 1500, done in 1988 and still going strong - Also have a Ford camper-van - best camper, we ever had - z |
Only if one hardly drives. As the old saying goes, "its not the years, but the miles". _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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AS350driver Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016 Posts: 1340 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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sanhozeezee wrote: |
Somewhat of a bus newb here and looking for recommendations for an ideal motor and trans (mostly concerned about motor size) set up for all around driving. i'd like to be able to cruise at 70ish and go up hills without getting honked at by prius drivers etc.
Right now i have a 1641 dp motor in a 67 split. according to my paperwork it's got a performance swing axle 12-volt and a 3.88 r&p and stock rbg's. it goes ok but would love to make it more drivable.
a friend said 1915's are bullet proof while another says a low compression 2180 is the way to go.
Thoughts? |
I like the 1776 for cool running and have a built 1835 SP with dual carbs that runs amazing with great driveability. It runs very cool as well. They cruise at 60-65 and do ok on hills. Either can attain 70 mph to pass...... But *comfortably* cruising at 70 AND climbing hills without downshifting is a big leap for air cooled vw motors in a bus. That extra 5-10 mph will require exponentially more power due to the nature of aerodynamics. Probably something over 2L. To build a reliable, cool running Type 1 motor like that be prepared to shell out some cash. Will you be camping and going off road in it?
Another option if you want to stay vintage and aircooled is get a Corvair Greenbrier van. If I’m in a hurry and want to go 70 and pass people going up hill I take my 1963 Greenbrier. I’ve actually cruised it at 80, no problemo. 110 hp stock , reliable , unstressed and smooth as an electric motor.
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sehilliard1 Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2008 Posts: 46 Location: North Canton
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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I like this conversation.
I’ve read several good threads that all get at about the same idea. Seems like most people have different formulas that work best for them.
I’m in the process of having a 2017cc motor built for my Sundial camper bus. It has stock 67 gearing but a 3.88 r/p recently rebuilt by Rancho. Seems to be about the right recipe as several others in my area (Ohio) are running similar gearing and similar engine size. I had been running a stock 1600 single port behind the transaxle which ran well until it didn’t. I would agree that with the taller r/p the single port was out of guts for the hills of Eastern Ohio.
I did put a set of the larger AT tires on my camper, the 27x8.5x 14 Grabbers. I had been running a 195/70/14 prior. The bigger tires definitely added to the problem with the gearing and the power.
My 2017cc should be finished by the time to drive season returns to Ohio ( April or May) I’ll do my best to update and let you know how it performs. I’m planning for run dual Weber 44s at this point. |
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Wade Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2007 Posts: 125 Location: NorCal
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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Hi. Because variety is the spice of life, I'll chime in with what I did. It's not for everyone, but it does work really well for me.
I have a '56 bus with a 2332cc engine and a big nut trans. I had the trans rebuilt with a 3.88 ring and pinion and stock '67 gear ratios, including the .82 fourth gear. I'm also running slightly taller 6.70 Firestone tires. The combination works really well. The engine is more than strong enough to push the taller gearing and tires, and I feel I have enough power to go over just about any hill. It cruises at 70 mph on the freeway and the engine stays cool.
Just another combination for you to mull over.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Regards,
-Wade |
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NUTSFORBUSES Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016 Posts: 557 Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ideal motor and transaxle set up for all around driving? |
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I have an IRS w a 2332 (calmed down) to 180hp, lowered w 15's, 4 wheel disc-Even then a Chevy van as mentioned is a better idea. These are old w old ideas even after you have rebuilt just about everything.
My first bus was over 40 years ago, you either should have unlimited pockets or accept it for what it is, a vintage Bus that cruises. My first Bus was a 1200cc with Westy camping gear-slow was my name. Today I can easily hit 80 or 90mph fairly fast, but I don't. Climbing IS very easy, but if I look back at what I've spent, I would make You pay for my divorce, then kill you. |
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