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teahead
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2019
Posts: 326
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Weak taillight blinkers |
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Bad relay?
Front turn signals seem bright, but not the rears.
Link
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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Add ground wires to both taillight bulb holders and run the wires directly to the battery ground cable point on the RH side of the engine lid opening.
VW finally did that at the factory for the 1970 model year bus, due to the weak tail light grounds.
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teahead
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2019
Posts: 326
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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Hmmm...did that.
Didn't help.
Running lights way brighter in comparison.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| teahead wrote: |
Hmmm...did that.
Didn't help.
Running lights way brighter in comparison. |
Try switching the positive wires at each bulb holder.
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 560
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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If it were me, and it is. All my buses got worse as they aged (same as me) Especially 6V systems-I used a flashlight in the engine compartment in high school on my first bus so as not to get pulled over with all that beer.
Chip Birks makes a great LED system I installed in my 64 21 window. Took 1/2 hour to install and my tails are super bright! Running lights, indicators, and brakes. Grounds are tough w/o replacing the entire loom-do this, you won't regret it:Buy his blinker relay too. Nice guy to boot.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1865103 |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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Skip the turn signals for a moment and try the brake lights. Are they nice and bright, or weak and dim? If dim, pull the bulbs and clean up the sockets with rotary brushs (disk and cup style) on a Dremel tool. Clean the contact fingers and the socket shells. Do the same to the bulbs.
It appears to me that the flash duration (bulb "on" time) is very short. More like a strobe than a flash. Might try a different flasher relay.
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More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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livingskies
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| Maybe the leads to the running lights and signal lights are switched. The signals and brake lights should be brighter than the running lights. Try switching the wires at each light. |
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teahead
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2019
Posts: 326
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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Switched the leads; was even MORE dim.
Brake lights just as dim.
Ya, time for an LED conversion.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| teahead wrote: |
Switched the leads; was even MORE dim.
Brake lights just as dim.
Ya, time for an LED conversion. |
LEDs are great, but you still need all the voltage going to and from them back to ground to get thru. Otherwise you will just have dim LEDs. Plus likely to have way slow wipers, intermittent working horn, and other dim lights.
Check how much voltage at battery and how much of that is getting to the bulbs with them turned on. Fix any voltage drops in the wiring connections.
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 560
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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I also checked my voltage before I went to LED, it was 12V, Then I disconnected all the wires and cleaned the connections - used dielectric grease<a must have tool with a Bus. Same effect. The kit came w a very good ground wire for both sides and a new comparable blinker relay that works great for standard and LED bulbs as to not make your blinkers run erratically, plus the voltage draw is much less. my brakes, blinker and running are as bright as my Infinity during the daylight. You want to be seen in a slow Bus these days. BTW the light action is quicker now, more precise when you drop the pedal.
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livingskies
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| Here's a long shot. Is the bus still 6 volt or converted to 12 volt? If it still is 6 volt, are the bulbs also 6 volt or did someone inadvertently install 12 volt bulbs? |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
I also checked my voltage before I went to LED, it was 12V, Then I disconnected all the wires and cleaned the connections - used dielectric grease<a must have tool with a Bus. Same effect. The kit came w a very good ground wire for both sides and a new comparable blinker relay that works great for standard and LED bulbs as to not make your blinkers run erratically, plus the voltage draw is much less. my brakes, blinker and running are as bright as my Infinity during the daylight. You want to be seen in a slow Bus these days. BTW the light action is quicker now, more precise when you drop the pedal.
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LED's sound like a tempting upgrade for my '67 Camper. I guess you pretty much need to buy the relay upgrade too? Can you comment on heat generated by the LEDs being closer to those original plastic lenses? I imagine that LEDs put out less heat and brighter lights, but what was your experience?
Bill
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teahead
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2019
Posts: 326
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| livingskies wrote: |
| Here's a long shot. Is the bus still 6 volt or converted to 12 volt? If it still is 6 volt, are the bulbs also 6 volt or did someone inadvertently install 12 volt bulbs? |
converted to 12v. Bulbs looks like 12v.
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livingskies
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| Were both the four pin and five pin relays also changed to 12 volt units? |
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teahead
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2019
Posts: 326
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| livingskies wrote: |
| Were both the four pin and five pin relays also changed to 12 volt units? |
Hmm...maybe not. I'll take off the front interior panel to check.
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 560
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| Quote: |
LED's sound like a tempting upgrade for my '67 Camper. I guess you pretty much need to buy the relay upgrade too? Can you comment on heat generated by the LEDs being closer to those original plastic lenses? I imagine that LEDs put out less heat and brighter lights, but what was your experience?
Bill |
Virtually No Heat. Honestly I never "felt-up" my lenses, but I have used "like" LED's on several occasions and they are cool to the touch. The image is the brake lights-very bright, the running lights are less, but great. You need to use the relay b/c of LED reacts differently than incandesent. Birks makes a nice well fitting unit and his relay is spot-on. The fact that they use much less voltage is enough. His ground wire in the kit is top quality. I'm interested in being seen at night and day, these do the job very well. I even installed vintage stop lights on my westy rack so I am now a billboard. Was always being shouted at "Your right side is out!" I would say "Great ! at least one works!" No more -bright as hell fire. I also think it's part-of keeping these buses on the road-not getting rear-ended--now my wife, that's a different story  |
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Chip 
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| teahead wrote: |
Bad relay?
Front turn signals seem bright, but not the rears.
Link
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Are all connections clean and tight? Dedicated ground is a good move. Any idea what voltage you are getting back there when the brake is pressed? Fronts have a lot less 55 year old wire to travel through. Probably not seeing the same volt drop as the rear is. |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12408
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
You need to use the relay b/c of LED reacts differently than incandesent. |
FWIT, I had changed the little generator light in the speedo to an LED one for better brightness which worked great... until recently when I went with an alternator! 
While the light still work and was still bright, after starting the engine I had to rev it up to about 4000 rpm to make it go out! 
Getting pretty tired of that, I replaced it with an old little bulb and now it goes out as soon as the engine is running. So basically the LEDs are not necessarily “better” for every single application, at least not without proper installation for the correct use. 
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teahead
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2019
Posts: 326
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
You need to use the relay b/c of LED reacts differently than incandesent. |
FWIT, I had changed the little generator light in the speedo to an LED one for better brightness which worked great... until recently when I went with an alternator!
While the light still work and was still bright, after starting the engine I had to rev it up to about 4000 rpm to make it go out!
Getting pretty tired of that, I replaced it with an old little bulb and now it goes out as soon as the engine is running. So basically the LEDs are not necessarily “better” for every single application, at least not without proper installation for the correct use. |
Right. I hear that you should never use LEDs for alt/gen idiot lights as it will prevent proper charging
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Weak taillight blinkers |
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| Chip B. wrote: |
| Fronts have a lot less 55 year old wire to travel through. Probably not seeing the same volt drop as the rear is. |
Wire itself does not matter if it has not been damaged, EG DPO shorted out the wire and burned the copper strands.
We have a 1960 walk thru panel camper conversion and 1963 single cab, both have original from factory wiring harnesses. Except for replacement wire sections in the engine compartment, replacements done there due to how plastic insulation hardens up in that environment. Both have no more then than 1/10 of a volt drop from battery on back to the taillights.
Plus we have a tote full of OG VW wires stripped out of wiring harnesses over the years. Anywhere one cuts into those wires is as perfect as the day they were made.
So it is the connections from and back to the battery that more often cause the voltage drop problems. Including connections inside the fuse box and headlight switch.
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