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Logan Learns to Build a Fastback
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loganzillmer
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:29 pm    Post subject: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Hi, everyone. My name is Logan Zillmer. I am a commercial and advertising photographer and director. I also co-own a new automotive content creation company called Cult of Velocity. We tell stories about cars and their obsessive owners (check us out). I have been a car enthusiast my whole life, though I've always been more skilled with the camera than with the wrench.

Earlier this year, I caved to the need to have a weekend car of my own that I can be wildly in love with. Considering my very particular nature, and my love for creating my own work, I figured now is the time to learn to build a car myself. I've always been in love with air cooled motors and 60's and 70's german styling, and when I saw my first Fastback, I decided I absolutely had to have one. I looked around for about 5 months and the car I found that I thought best suited my project was this:

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The only thing I knew I wanted at the beginning was an early front end (no offense to the long nose friends out there, do your thing). This one is a '70 but it does have a whole front end conversion. I know, a lot of work. But it looked and drove straight, had a clean(ish) pan and body, and I offered 60% of the asking price and he took it. So, now its mine.

I was hesitant to start a thread about my build because it is probably going to get ugly and take forever. I am learning how to do everything with this build. However, I figured I would do a thread instead of flooding the forum with noob questions every time I try to take something off my car. I don't expect any of you to go easy on me after knowing my lack of history with wrenches, but I hope we can have fun together and maybe this thread will help other people like me gain the confidence to build their own car, as there will probably be a lot of stupid questions coming from this direction that some people would be afraid to ask.

I do have the Bently book, so, along with this forum, that is what I am using as a reference.

I will go into detail in a later post about my vision for the build.

My first project was to replace the brake master cylinder and front lines and hoses, but I decided while I am up there, I would restore the whole front axle assembly, and rebuild the steering gear. So, that is what I am working on now. Fun things so far: I dumped gasoline all over myself when I pulled the gas tank, and I nearly drove through the back of my garage when I first got it up the driveway. But, I've only stripped one bolt so far so.... successful progress in my book.

I have gotten the front axle assembly off.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So, come along with me as I learn how to build a car. It might be fun, and it will probably be funny. I promise I am not going to pretend I know more or less than I know. I love to learn and I love cars. I am really excited about this project and I cant wait to sort it out and drive the hell out of it.

So, to begin this thread, I will start with the first dumb question:

How the hell do I take this off? I have undone the bolt that holds the collar (actually thats the one I stripped) but I can't get that piece off so I can pull the steering column through (I took off the steering wheel and all the column mounting screws). Thanks!



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rosevillain
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Welcome. Nice starting point. Don't be afraid to ask even the dumb questions, chances are it will help someone else sometime. You picked a great place to learn, this forum is loaded with some very knowledgeable people that share (perhaps sometimes too much...). I've seen this forum take complete ignorance (not a bad word), and turn it in to a restoration. Listen to everyone, they all have something to contribute, especially in the type 3 forum.

Don't let them under your skin when they tell you that it won't matter what you do to your car, because fastbacks are parts cars.

Honestly, this collection of miscreants is pretty special. But don't listen to me, I'm more of a creepy lurker, a drunk uncle that doesn't even drive a VW.

I think that your current problem can be solved with some penetrating oil, and a hammer.
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loganzillmer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

rosevillain wrote:
Welcome. Nice starting point. Don't be afraid to ask even the dumb questions, chances are it will help someone else sometime. You picked a great place to learn, this forum is loaded with some very knowledgeable people that share (perhaps sometimes too much...). I've seen this forum take complete ignorance (not a bad word), and turn it in to a restoration. Listen to everyone, they all have something to contribute, especially in the type 3 forum.

Don't let them under your skin when they tell you that it won't matter what you do to your car, because fastbacks are parts cars.

Honestly, this collection of miscreants is pretty special. But don't listen to me, I'm more of a creepy lurker, a drunk uncle that doesn't even drive a VW.

I think that your current problem can be solved with some penetrating oil, and a hammer.


Lol. Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. So far everyone on here has been really great.
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Welcome.

Nice to see another Fastback fan. Cool

I'd start off by setting some type of definition as to how far you want to go with the project.

A complete 100% nut-and-bolt resto can take years and cost a staggering amount (see my build as an example).

If what you want to do is not a full resto, and your car looks good enough in the pics that I'd guess it isn't, then you'll want to set a clearly-defined line as to what you want to disturb, and what you don't.
This can be hard to do, specially when in the disassembly phase of things.


Case in point; your steering coupler bracket dealiebob.
You'll want to knock the clamp collar loose, and get some penetrating oil in there.
Slather a bunch of Liquid Wrench or Kroil or similar on it,
Soak it for days,
Re-applying,
And tapping with a hammer this way and that.
You'll want to be very careful not to damage the bearings in the column housing.
Also, several column parts up under the dash are fragile and unobtanium.

So,
This illustrates my point as to setting specific goals.
A lot of time, what NOT to fix can be an important decision.
Unless you have a specific reason for taking the column out of the car,
I'd pick that one as a great opportunity to let sleeping dogs lie.

What made you decide the column needs to come out?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Good luck and welcome!
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loganzillmer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Welcome.

Nice to see another Fastback fan. Cool

I'd start off by setting some type of definition as to how far you want to go with the project.

A complete 100% nut-and-bolt resto can take years and cost a staggering amount (see my build as an example).

If what you want to do is not a full resto, and your car looks good enough in the pics that I'd guess it isn't, then you'll want to set a clearly-defined line as to what you want to disturb, and what you don't.
This can be hard to do, specially when in the disassembly phase of things.


Case in point; your steering coupler bracket dealiebob.
You'll want to knock the clamp collar loose, and get some penetrating oil in there.
Slather a bunch of Liquid Wrench or Kroil or similar on it,
Soak it for days,
Re-applying,
And tapping with a hammer this way and that.
You'll want to be very careful not to damage the bearings in the column housing.
Also, several column parts up under the dash are fragile and unobtanium.

So,
This illustrates my point as to setting specific goals.
A lot of time, what NOT to fix can be an important decision.
Unless you have a specific reason for taking the column out of the car,
I'd pick that one as a great opportunity to let sleeping dogs lie.

What made you decide the column needs to come out?


I think you make a great point about what NOT to fix. Maybe you can help me with some of that.

Here is my vision:
I am not doing a "full restoration." I bought the car because it is a Frankenstein already and I wanted to do more of a resto-mod than a restoration. However, I am particular and I do want it to look and drive great. So I want to restore as much of it as I can, and upgrade some areas. But, I am fine with buying non-OEM parts or doing the work necessary to bring the current parts back to life. So far, things look pretty decent on the car. Right now I am restoring the front end. From what I am reading, there really aren't any front suspension and steering upgrades, so I am pulling all the suspension parts, and I plan to have them blasted and powdercoated. The beam, I will degrease, metal-prep and top coat myself. The reason I am trying to pull the column is because I wanted to rebuild the steering system so it is nice and tight, and I want to clean up and powder-coat or paint the shaft and the cool looking crumple part of the shaft.
When the front end is done, I am going to drive it as-is until winter. Then I plan to start the powertrain project. I want to put a 2.0L Type 4 motor in it (A friend of mine has a block he was going to put in his bus before he decided to Subie swap it, so he is willing to sell it to me) with a few upgrades (shooting for around 110hp). I was originally thinking Porsche trans, but I have since been talked out of that in favor of a Type 3 manual trans with the Berg5 mod. At the same time I am doing the powertrain swap, I plan to restore the rear axle and suspension and upgrade the brakes. (Don't yet know what brakes to go with, but I do want 4-wheel disc.) As of right now, I am leaning toward the 5x130 pattern so I can put Porsche SC Fuchs on. I was planning on doing drop spindles and narrowed torsion arms to fit the SC Fuchs under the car, but that is mostly for looks and I am thinking earlier smaller Fuchs will be just fine. I'll probably still do drop spindles though.
When I am satisfied with the car mechanically, then I plan to do the bodywork and have it painted. There is a small hole in the pan in the driver side footwell, and a few dents and dings. When the bodywork is done, I plan to take everything off and do a body-off respray as I hate the current orange, and its a really bad paint job. I will put it all back together and then re-do the interior as my last step.
Visually, I want to backdate the rear fenders to be 68-69 to match the front, and I want to get chrome trim and bumpers back on. I want to put Raydyot repop mirrors or Durant Style mirrors on. I want to paint it Bali Blue over a dark tan vinyl interior (maybe houndstooth inserts in the seats and the upper third of the door cards). I have some pop-out rear windows I want to install as well. I want to put early low-back buckets in (RSR inspired), and put a 60's 911 or 912 steering wheel on (I'm fine with repop in both those areas as well).

So, thats the plan. I am hoping to spend under 15K on the entire project, but I really haven't priced everything out so that could be laughably off. I plan to do all or as much of the work myself as I can, both as a way to cut costs and to learn and get the satisfaction of building my own car. If it takes 2 years to do the whole project, that would be great. If it takes 3 years, thats fine. If it takes 4 years, I will start to consider making some concessions. If I go over 20K, I'll be in trouble.

I plan to drive the shit out of it every weekend in the summer, take my kids to get ice cream, and take it to car events.
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loganzillmer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

vwfye wrote:
Good luck and welcome!


Thanks!
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Qldelsie
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

I know it will be a bit cheaper in the US, if only because of the freight, but to give you an idea of time and costs, here is a rough breakdown of my recent Fasty rebuild. (Not body off)
Most of the cost is just parts as I have done most of the work. My car was basically rust free, but very sad internally with rotted carpets, ripped seats and headliner, minor surface rust throughout. It was running, just. Wherever possible I have used the original parts in order to save costs - Original distrib, fuel pump etc.
All seats recovered.
New carpets through out
New roof liner and sun visors
New front and rear window rubbers, and new front windscreen. All other windows are original.
All window and door rubbers replaced.
Wheels sandblasted and painted, and fitted with new tyres
All insides of panels de-rusted and painted with anti-rust paint.
All new bushings in rear suspension
All new ball joints and bushing up front.
Steering box rebuilt
Engine rebuilt to standard
Gearbox rebuilt. Gearbox bushings replaced.
Carbs rebuilt (they were warped from being tightened down too much)
Full panel off respray (I did all the prep work myself)
That lot took me 8 months, but I was a way for 2 months last Christmas, so 6 months of working 10 hours virtually every day, 7 days a week.
Total cost is Aus$40,000 (almost US$ 30,000) . Of this, about $8000 was engine, gearbox and respray. So $32,000 just for parts and sundries, and remember I did all the labour, so that is not costed in.
That should give you a rough idea.
And if anyone sends these details on to my wife, I will personally come and hunt you down Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Unless you want to be like me (10+ years and pushing 100 grand)
I’d consider doing a ‘rolling resto’.

Pick one aspect of the project - say, in your case now, the beam.
Figure out what you are likely to need and acquire it.
With a beam, they all seem to need ball-joints, tie-rod ends, a steering damper,
As well as related items, like wheel bearings or beam bushings and torsion arm seals.
It might take you a while to get all of these.
There’s that funny angled left inner tie-rod end for example..

In my case, I found another complete beam and rebuilt it.
Then, swapped the whole thing in as a unit.

This minimizes down-time; allowing you to use the car in the interim.

A whole complete parts car can be useful in this respect.

When you end up seeing how long it takes to find some parts of these cars,
You’re going to wish you had left it together until you had all of the parts you -thought- you’d need in one place.

Break the whole car into smaller sub-projects.
Get the new type 4 run in and tuned before you pull the old motor.
Have your 5-speed complete built from another core before pulling the original.
Collect all of the brake/wheel parts before getting out the jack.
Etc..

That way you can ‘cash flow’ things as needed,
And keep the car a car, and not a carcass.. Wink
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modok wrote:
if you have the expectation that you can put mexican taxi bearings, in a brazil engine case, and put a chinese crank in it and have the right clearance...
Time to change your expectations.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Looks like you're starting with a pretty nice car in good condition. You'll get help for everything here.

Since you're doing the beam, I'd recommend looking into this thread. He has put together some great info on steering boxes.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446

That coupler piece at the end of the steering column is splined, like Clatter said penetrating oil and you'll basically have to slowly pound it loose. A MAP or O/A torch is helpful too, a good amount of heat helps loosen rust-welded parts.

I think Bob mentioned in another thread that the bushings and bearings for the torsion arms are near impossible to find, so you'll want to inspect them well and make sure there's no slop for the arms. I had to replace my beam as the original needle bearing cages were broken on the passenger side, I can only guess a hard curb check at some point in it's life. I have a bunch of made in China needle bearings, but who knows if they would stand the test of time...

For the tie rod ends, the left inner one is special and has a 9 deg bend in it. You should find a proper one instead of using the straight ones available.

Anyway, it's a fun hobby and I think you'll have a great experience with your project.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Unless you want to be like me (10+ years and pushing 100 grand)
I’d consider doing a ‘rolling resto’.


Laughing That was my original plan too.........but one thing kind of led to another - I think you know how it goes... !!
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loganzillmer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Unless you want to be like me (10+ years and pushing 100 grand)
I’d consider doing a ‘rolling resto’.

Pick one aspect of the project - say, in your case now, the beam.
Figure out what you are likely to need and acquire it.
With a beam, they all seem to need ball-joints, tie-rod ends, a steering damper,
As well as related items, like wheel bearings or beam bushings and torsion arm seals.
It might take you a while to get all of these.
There’s that funny angled left inner tie-rod end for example..

In my case, I found another complete beam and rebuilt it.
Then, swapped the whole thing in as a unit.

This minimizes down-time; allowing you to use the car in the interim.

A whole complete parts car can be useful in this respect.

When you end up seeing how long it takes to find some parts of these cars,
You’re going to wish you had left it together until you had all of the parts you -thought- you’d need in one place.

Break the whole car into smaller sub-projects.
Get the new type 4 run in and tuned before you pull the old motor.
Have your 5-speed complete built from another core before pulling the original.
Collect all of the brake/wheel parts before getting out the jack.
Etc..

That way you can ‘cash flow’ things as needed,
And keep the car a car, and not a carcass.. Wink


That is EXACTLY what I was thinking I would do. Good to hear thats a good way to go haha. It seems like it might be more work, but I don't get the juice from the build as much as I do from the drive, and seeing the drive get better over time. So I planned to piece meal it out, and as you say "cash flow" the project. I want to drive it as much as I am able.

The 5 speed I have to have built from another core because my car is currently an Automatic. Aaaaand I have just discovered the conversion is not nearly as straight forward as I imagined a 50 year old VW conversion to be. But, it MUST be manual trans. Looking into the hydraulic clutch option as someone mentioned in one of the threads. Not sure why that would make it easier to swap, but fingers crossed.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond in detail. Its really helpful.
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loganzillmer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Brent wrote:
Looks like you're starting with a pretty nice car in good condition. You'll get help for everything here.

Since you're doing the beam, I'd recommend looking into this thread. He has put together some great info on steering boxes.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446

That coupler piece at the end of the steering column is splined, like Clatter said penetrating oil and you'll basically have to slowly pound it loose. A MAP or O/A torch is helpful too, a good amount of heat helps loosen rust-welded parts.

I think Bob mentioned in another thread that the bushings and bearings for the torsion arms are near impossible to find, so you'll want to inspect them well and make sure there's no slop for the arms. I had to replace my beam as the original needle bearing cages were broken on the passenger side, I can only guess a hard curb check at some point in it's life. I have a bunch of made in China needle bearings, but who knows if they would stand the test of time...

For the tie rod ends, the left inner one is special and has a 9 deg bend in it. You should find a proper one instead of using the straight ones available.

Anyway, it's a fun hobby and I think you'll have a great experience with your project.


Thanks for the link, Brent. I'll definitely check it out.

BTW, ISP West has the 9 deg tie rod ends. Ordering one now.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Happy to help with any ordering issues/questions when it comes to ISP! Feel free to email me.

-Michael

[email protected]
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

squaretobehip wrote:
Happy to help with any ordering issues/questions when it comes to ISP! Feel free to email me.

-Michael

[email protected]


Thanks Michael! You guys will definitely be my go-to.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Looks like solid car to start with. I upgraded to the squareback front sway bar and rear torsion bars. Helped to take alot of the lean and sway out of the car.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Having done a few type 3s over the years, I'd do like Steve (Clatter) suggested and try to keep it as a rolling rebuild. Look at the links in my signature (build threads) as you might get some ideas from them. Granted those cars were in more need than what you've got to work with. Those cars needed full on rust repair. But, we've also got an Orange 70 Fastback, complete with FI and AT (my wife's car). In the back yard, there's a 70 Squareback (in need of being gone thru), plus my son's 65 Topless Roadster out in the tent (portable garage).

Also, I'm on the other side of the state (just outside Port Huron), and if needed, you can contact me thru the Samba PM system (others have, and others will. I could even PM you my direct e-mail too.
I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Having done a few type 3s over the years, I'd do like Steve (Clatter) suggested and try to keep it as a rolling rebuild. Look at the links in my signature (build threads) as you might get some ideas from them. Granted those cars were in more need than what you've got to work with. Those cars needed full on rust repair. But, we've also got an Orange 70 Fastback, complete with FI and AT (my wife's car). In the back yard, there's a 70 Squareback (in need of being gone thru), plus my son's 65 Topless Roadster out in the tent (portable garage).

Also, I'm on the other side of the state (just outside Port Huron), and if needed, you can contact me thru the Samba PM system (others have, and others will. I could even PM you my direct e-mail too.
I hope this helps.


Thanks, Bob! Glad to see another Michigander on here.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

I finally got my steering column out without breaking anything. However, I did discover that the play in the column was from a broken collar piece attached to the housing. So it looks like I will need to replace the housing. My question is, how do I get it off?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Logan Learns to Build a Fastback Reply with quote

Looks like you're most of the way there. Remove the shaft nut, and see if it'll slide off. You might have a flat washer or snap ring that you might have to remove to get it off.
Have you gotten yourself a brown Bentley yet? If not, get one. It'll help you out in the long run.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
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Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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