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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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 Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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I stopped using Napa belts after I ordered 2 for my Mopar ( alternator/waterpump double pulley) that were the same part number and different sizes!! 4 trips later we ended up with 6 belts all slightly different in radius. Get you belts from Rock Auto and find NOS. Never tried their value line.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:58 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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I have only used them on my drill press. The sizing is a little odd.....but in that relatively controlled environment they work ok.....but they do get stiff with heat and age more rapidly than some of the previous belts
Here is a link to a little bit of dicussion in the "Bob is the oil guy forum". One guy down below states that both belts are made by Gates but the cheaper line is Korean or Mexican in origin.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/napa-gates-belts.171011/#post-2546610
He also states that the high end Gates belts are EPDM.....which is incorrect. There are no automotive belts made of EPDM....because EPDM breaks down rapidly in the presence of any petroleum or VOC product.
They are typically made of EPR rubber.....big difference. The cheaper belts he states are Neoprene....which I can beleive.....as its got good oil resistance but it has lower temperature resistance.....about 275° max.
EPR is about 300°+.
Its a bit of poor "nomenclature".....because even the Gates and Continental web sites list EPDM as the rubber. This comes from marketing idiots reading reddit and quora links.....which state that EPR and EPDM are very similar......which chemically they are.....similar......but far from the same.
A great example......in early brake systems up through the 1950s that used mineral oil based brake fluid....the master cylinder and wheel cylinder seals were EPR. Later glycol based brakd fluids use EPDM to this day. If you swap either into the other fluid....they swell and dissolve.
In reality these belts are laminates of more than one rubber.
But EPR AND EPDM.....are expensive. There has been a whole range of cheaper rubber and oil seal products using Neoprene and nitrile being produced over the past decade or so.....to get away from the more expensive EPDM, EPR and Viton.
Ray |
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:47 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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| Manfred58sc wrote: |
| I stopped using Napa belts after I ordered 2 for my Mopar ( alternator/waterpump double pulley) that were the same part number and different sizes!! 4 trips later we ended up with 6 belts all slightly different in radius. Get you belts from Rock Auto and find NOS. Never tried their value line. |
When I worked counter a billion years ago Gates sold belts in factory matched pairs. We sold a ton of them to the Jag shops. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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NAPA belts a trash imho.
even though they are made by Gates, Gates must strip out some secret formula because every...and i mean every NAPA belt squeaks/squeals. the EXACT same belt from Gates....never a peep.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
NAPA belts a trash imho.
even though they are made by Gates, Gates must strip out some secret formula because every...and i mean every NAPA belt squeaks/squeals. the EXACT same belt from Gates....never a peep. |
Yep.....if you are finding that problem.....its a material change. Ray |
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AutoMechanic
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2019
Posts: 483
Location: Roanoke Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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| Haven’t seen the value line yet. I’ve had good luck with Napa belts in the past. But I prefer Gates. |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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If you have a Tractor Supply nearby they sell belts by size. Great quality too.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:54 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Well thanks for the feedback!
A bit surprised about the negative reviews on their main quality belts, I've not experienced much problem with them, but maybe my standards are low?
I'll keep a heads up for excessive squeal.
The cheap belt?
IMHO belts are just too important to go cheap on.
My only interest is as a spare emergency set but I'm probably better served by carrying my older but quality take offs for emergency roadside repairs.
When you are running an antique coast to coast, I want to be prepared the best I can be.
There are great sections of this Country that only have cellular service in the small towns that dot the deserted highways.
Dave |
I have clients in the automotive parts manufacturing industry. They make three main types or categories of parts.
1. first line parts for OEM's.....meaning they ACTUALLY get installed in new cars on the assembly line.
2. They also make what I would call "late life stage" dealer replacement parts.
NOTE : let me define that......Understand that when a car model is new.....and if its popular....many manufacturers order vast quantities of normal wear parts to be produced over a defined period of time.
These are the same part, same quality.....top quality.....as what goes into the original car on the assembly line....they also have a pool of same quality spares at the dealer. ............this is NOT those parts I am speaking of.
What I mean by "late stage".....is when a vehicle had a shorter run than expected......or even had a normal model lifespan but used up most of the original order contract of parts and dealer spares.....but still has a few years left in the required "10 year" spare parts requirement........the after market owned companies (like Gates and Federal mogul) that originally made the parts......may be contracted to make new ...shorter run/lower volume ....less profitable production runs of the same (or close to the same)....OEM quality part.
Again.....this is FOR the original equipment manufacturer. It may be the exact part in every way. It may be slightly improved. It may be slightly inferior. But it is usually very close. Its mostly for the dealer replacement pipeline. Items like CV boots....brake pads etc.
3. They make the same parts for the aftermarket chains.
However......the aftermarket chains (O'reillys, Pep boys NAPA)...sometimes ....many times .....do not have access to usage of OEM tools and dies for their production runs through the original supplier. Its partly an intellectual property issue. Either the original car manufacturer owns the tools and dies and are not going to let them be used by the aftermarket.....or the dies have been worn out and are long gone.
And.....more importantly.....these aftermarket supply chains usually do not have the cash flow or market share......to order something like a 5 million part order like the original car manufacturer did.
Those original huge orders from the original car manufacturer.....are what allowed them to demand.....absolute top quality parts and materials.....and tooling.....at an affordable price. They order by the train load when the car is going into production.
But the aftermarket chains do not have this luxury. They NEED a cheaper part.
The aftermarket supplier provides this shorter run part by either going to cheaper materials.....or using cheaper tools, molds and dies.....going to factories they own in the third world etc. So.....the parts will be different in some way from what went into the car at the production line or were sold at the dealer as spares
Then add in.....what if an OEM someone like Gates, Hella or Federal Mogul.....is making the same part for mutiple parts store chains. And....these chains want to offer something either better in quality or cheaper in price.....than competing chains. The manufacturer makes tweaks and changes ....usually to the material set. This is where we run into quality problems as compared to the original part installed on the assembly line or sold through the dealer.
In many cases.....you can find the same exact aftermarket part....and same quality.....simply reboxed under different private label brands.....across several competing chains. Same exact part. In other cases.....there are REAL differences in quality, fit and finish.
This is why in so many cases.....the actual same part from the dealer chain is better quality and probably more expensive.
Ray |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:49 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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If you have a Nappa belt, do you get Nappa shoes to match?
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ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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We like everything NAPA - Z
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Matt Wilson
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 2408
Location: Colorado
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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| Abscate wrote: |
If you have a Nappa belt, do you get Nappa shoes to match?      :2gunfire:     |
 napa is sourcing cheep stuff to buy and sell. everybody is. and the high priced stuff is high priced because there are people that think they are really getting the best for the$$$ witch is not usualy true. I have zero issues with the $5 belt, just buy 2 so incase you do have a issue you have a spare.
I bought the $6 belt with free shipping off flebay for the wifes 2005 honda element probably 8 years ago. it has always woked great. it has had many qt's of oil run through it grooves(slurpintime) as it was a good while before I finaly found the oil leek source( fucking honda ,I thought it was the ps pump..no.not the cvvt asssy either...not the sensor...not the loose filter..not the head gasket....not the pully seal...  and a few quarts of awesome cleaner on the belt to clean it all off...then I pull the ps pump&bracket...and fucking honda has a block off plate with a oil screen in the oring gasket...1" wide almost 2 inches long totaly hidden... gasket...$3 orilys. I do have a new belt for it but..... wtf. it works fine. not comming appart, not fraying not swelling...at some point Ill put the new belt on...or a new vehicle as this one has over 190000 miles on it... and almost zero issues.( 1 alt,1 starter, 1 ps pump and this oil leek) I wish they stil made that car.( the alt was bad when we bought it from honda...)
I would go with the korean belt before any other place . |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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Gates. 'Nuff said.
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AirHead1966
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2019
Posts: 568
Location: Triad Area NC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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| djkeev wrote: |
...
Now the "real" NAPA belt is $23.00
This Power Fit belt is $5.00
...
Anyone have experience with this belt line?
Dave |
I don't and I sure as hell don't want to get that experience in the middle of the highway, late at night.
You get what you pay for and things are cheap for a reason. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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Weird that I see this thread title, as I just bought a new NAPA alternator belt for my truck a few minutes ago. The old belt is also NAPA brand, and recently began making a whirring/whining noise. I sprayed a little belt conditioner on it, and the sound abates, for a few minutes. But it comes back and is pretty annoying. So I just stopped by and bought a new belt, and it appears to be exactly the same belt as the old one, Made in the USA even.
We shall see. Had I seen this thread first, I may not have bought it.
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:48 am Post subject: Re: NAPA belts |
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| speaking of belts....my brother called...said a old friend from 30+ years ago has bought a house down the street from him, this guy has been gone for all that time...he was possiably one of the most clueless inept guys Ive ever seen when it comes to cars, but he loves them so much and trys so hard. he woule rebuild the same engine many times the same way....not knowing what was rong or how to fix it, just keep doing the same thing.... he's the guy with the general lee charger...he had a few of them and did some of the car show circuts and stunt shows with the beat up ones...I dont knoiw who was fixing them, possiably he did learn something we were trying to teach him...now it comes to the belt part of the story...he always wore the ELVIS belt buckel and ELVIS belt.....I wonder if he still has them...or replacements....Ill have to go by some day and see him. he wasent a total moron he just didnt have the skills up stairs to do what he wanted to do.good thing he was in the airforce!!! |
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