front brakes

[oprn]

My sand rail is missing it's front brakes (link pin) all that is there is the wide 5 drums. The question is: can I use the complete front brakes minus the drums from my Manx copy (ball joint, 4 bolt) including the backing plates?
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Hnoroian]

The bolt patterns and the bearing sizes are different. The drums have different widths also.

It may be cheaper and easier to get the pieces missing and put them together. Or buy a cheaper complete set for the brakes, you can usually find them with hoses and other hardware. The other thing to think about is the master cylinder capable of adding more with another T-fitting or better yet with a dual circuit.
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Stupid people do stupid things.

[oprn]

Not sure what would be cheaper than using parts I already have but I do get the easier part. So the drum diameter is the same but not the width? Yes I suppose the backing plates will have a different bolt pattern. Dual master cylinder would be nice too but not essential I don't think for a bit of trail riding. I will have to dig around, I may have one.

Thanks I will do some parts pricing.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Hnoroian]

Remember reading awhile ago the 4’s were wider and more efficient. Not sure if you could, I’m sure someone here knows if they could, let alone should, be ran together. Can’t say I’ve ever seen it. Another thing to consider is if the drums need to be turned? Just another cost to consider.

FWIW if you go disk in the front they can lock up real easy in the front of a light weight car. You do you can always dial back pressure with a proportion valve.
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Stupid people do stupid things.

[oprn]

I have no need for discs on the front. I would like to stick with the wide 5 wheels because that is what I have on the back and don't want to have to carry two spares. The stock drums on the front will be more than enough for what I do with this Buggy. Besides that the wide 5 front disc kits are pretty pricy.

I am going to be changing out the fronts on my Manx copy to discs so thought maybe there was a possibility I could use the shoes and backing plates on the rail but it seems not.

Looks like $400 for all the parts before tax.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[earthquake]

I don't think BJ backing plates will fit LP spindles.

eQ
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74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
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DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison]

[oprn]

Now it seems to me that there is a couple of crossover years where there were ball joint beams with wide 5 bolt pattern. Was it '66 and '67? I think '68 was the first year for 4 bolt wheels.

Another thing I have noticed in shopping for a replacement beam is there are lots of choice if you want a narrow beam or a wide beam or a beam with funky shocks. Does anyone make just a stock replacement for the link pin?
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Hnoroian]

[oprn]

What I was referring to is the only link pin replacement beam I found was one with 8" extended shock mounts. Don't need that I just want a stock replacement.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[liquidrush]

Mine didn't have front brakes either, only the wide 5 drums. As with everything else I got another lesson in VW history while trying to add brakes. From a distance the link pin backing plate 3 bolt patterns appear to be the same and I bought a set of plates and brakes for a link pin front end and of course, they didn't fit. Turns out I have 1957ish spindles so I had to find those plates, cylinders, hoses and shoes and I still had to machine the lip on my drums to get them to fit and not rub on anything. Good thing I have a lathe in the shop that can handle drums. After I got it all together the wheel cylinders still wound up at the bottom so I had to loosen everything and rotate it to the top to bleed it properly. Once all of that was done I wound up with great front brakes. If you post a pic of your splindles I can tell you if you have early or late style.

[oprn]

Right on! This is what I needed. Yes I will pull a drum and get pictures, I could very well have the older style. I will be back in that shop when he opens on Monday, I am using a corner in my neighbor's shop 6 miles away for this project. -30 to -40 is a bit fresh for working on it outside!

I can tell you though that it originally had ball bearings on the front spindles. I have no idea what year they switched to tapered roller bearings.

Thanks for the reply!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[oprn]

Here is the promised photos.

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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[dustymojave]

My '58 came with ball bearings on the spindles. I converted them to tapered rollers back in the early 70s. Shop for tapered roller bearings using OD and width of the outer race, and ID of the inner race.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[oprn]

[Hnoroian]

They look real similar to my ‘64 but that step for some reason looks rather large from what I remember, could be the angle of it.
_________________
Stupid people do stupid things.

[dustymojave]

Maybe because the thrust spacer is still on the spindle shank in that photo.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[liquidrush]

Those are definitely the early style like mine are. They appear similar to the later ones but they are definitely different. I changed the roller bearings to conventional taper ones as well and have the part numbers if you need them including the seals.

[oprn]

Thanks!

Yes I did the bearing change over a few years back so that part is good. I ordered up the parts so hopefully they all fit!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[liquidrush]

I used the brake shoes that are 1.5" wide and they fit perfectly. I did turn the drums, they were extremely nasty from being exposed for so many years. It makes all the difference in the world having front brakes. You might consider either a dual circuit master cylinder or one with a larger bore to accomodate the extra duty. Remember Pascals law.

[oprn]

Mine too have been without shoes and back plates for likely 35 years. I took the drums in yesterday to be cleaned up.

I'm not concerned at all about the extra duty as all VW master cylinders were designed to work with 4 wheel brakes. I am running Bus drums on the rear though so we will see how the brake balance is. I am pretty sure it will be better than no brakes on the front at all though!

Yes of the master cylinder is faulty I would replace it with a dual circuit one. Why not!

Impatiently waiting for parts to show up...
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)