2.1 to 2.2 WBX rebuild with Marco Mansi High Performance Heads.

[felixbobcat]

Late last year I purchased a set of Marco Mansi's High Performance Big Bore Heads for my anemic 2.1 WBX. The 2.1 had low compression in three cylinders which turned out to be leaky valves. I pulled the engine and trans after getting it dyno tested. This was to get a baseline on its then current Horsepower and Torque.

As you can see the numbers are fairly abysmal. Only 66.55 Horsepower at 4235 RPM and 95.91 lbft Torque at 3414 RPM. I thought the numbers would be reversed!

Motor and trans ready to be separated.

I not only bought Marco's Heads but also his 1.35 Ratio Rockers and High volume Oil Pump. My pump was leaking as well as the rear Crank Seal, which prompted pulling the motor.

After pulling the heads I found the cylinders to be in fairly good condition. Still cross hatched and no upper lip.

Unfortunately the photo doesn't show this but it does tell you that I pulled the pistons and cylinders.

Since I didn't know the history of this engine I wanted to be sure the bottom end could handle the increased horsepower, so a complete teardown ensued.

Then I called Rocky Jennings and everything changed.

Hence, 2.1 to 2.2.

As the old saying goes, "In for a Penny, in for a Pound." The motor had definitely been rebuilt but I wanted to make sure the bottom end was okay. It appeared to have the original rods, German, but the pistons were from Brazil. So I decided, lets give this thing a little more help and give it Rocky's 2.2 Pistons. That in turn prompted me to buy new rods after discussing it with Rocky. His point being that the main cause of most WBX engine failures is Connecting Rod failure. Mine had stretch bolts so that meant replacing the bolts or just get new rods. Rocky helped supply new rods.

I then took the Crank to DPR in Santa Ana to get it polished, balanced and measured for new bearings. Jose at DPR knows these engines very well and confirmed standard size bearings were needed. He polished and balanced the flex plate as well.

I sent my Camshaft to Rocky to get it reground. Waiting on that. It is supposed to be delivered today. Once I get that as well as new rod bearings, I will check to make sure there is no interference with the case and pistons.

More on that to follow.

And more pictures...

[puchfinnland]

I am building a Mansi big valve also,
I will have a set of DJ pistons, DJ grind on the cam,
NOS rods w ARP bolts
1:35 rockers and running FI/IGN from an ABA obd II
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[4Gears4Tires]

I would expect a van to dyno fresh out of the factory at 65-70whp. 85-90hp at the motor with a 20hp drive train loss sounds pretty standard. It doesn't even look like your motor is "tired."
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'87 Syncro
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[thatbaldwinlife]

I know I don't have the Mansi heads but Rocky rebuilt my 2.1 to a 2.2 a few years ago and with the Rocky Mountain Westy exhaust, it is a pretty respectable motor. It has Rockys cam, ratio rockers, 3 angle valve job, ported intake to match heads and other little tricks Rocky does on these. Revs great and decent torque for what it is.
nate
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[felixbobcat]

From what I’ve read the 2.1 was rated at 100hp so a twenty percent drivetrain loss would put it at 80hp. Three of my cylinders had compression at 135 and one at 175. Regardless of those numbers the point of my rebuild is to see how much Marco’s heads will increase my current horsepower, And get a much better engine.

[4Gears4Tires]

That is a really big spread in compression, definitely rebuild territory.

The 2.1 was listed at 95hp, but I'm betting 90hp was more accurate. GW calls it 90hp fwiw https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=11 Although, since they sell upgraded engines they have financial motivation to downgrade stock motors. But either way, I think 90hp is probably more accurate. They're not the first automaker to overrate/underrate the hp, at least it's not the RX-8 with "238" hp but really 215hp....
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[Steve M.]

I was just curious with these new high performance heads and the numbers look impressive, what is being done with the throttle body?


What's the point if the throttle body can only pass the same amount of air?
Or can you put two throttle bodies on and have one for each side of the engine?
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[MarkWard]

You’d need to connect the head, intake, and throttle body to a flow bench to measure if the throttle body is the restriction. My guess is it’s not, but if it is a restriction, it would be at the top end not in the mid range where the engine spends most its life.

HP numbers are fun to compare, but I’m more interested in torque improvements.
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[Steve M.]

[4Gears4Tires]

And if the airflow really does increase you have to increase the fueling to match or you're just going to run lean. You'd need either a tuned chip, a standalone EMS, or maybe a rising rate adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Easiest option, if it works, might be dropping in a DJ computer. I assume they have an increased fueling tune.

I agree with Mark, I also doubt the throttle body is a restriction.
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'87 Syncro
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[dobryan]

My guess is that Marco has considered this and likely has sage advice on what works well together.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Jake de Villiers]

[4Gears4Tires]

The RX8 was marketed as 240hp, sold as 238hp in 2004, 232hp by 2006 for the manuals. The automatics had 212hp for 2006. Or something like that, all the same motor of course. There is a range of tolerance on HP that is SAE allowable. 232hp was very optimistic with most RX8s dynoing around 175-185whp. A 50-60hp drivetrain loss is just unbelievable. 232hp was probably just inside the range of what a 215hp motor could pass with.

In summary, the same old lies.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[Steve M.]

[4Gears4Tires]

It was interesting that Felix's peak hp was 4200rpm though, I probably shift out of 2nd and 3rd around there. Much more usable than the the stated 4800rpm. Peak torque at 3000rpm is pretty nice as well.

It would just be nice if those power numbers were doubled! I wonder what a Syncro puts down to the wheels with all the extra parts. 50whp? I wouldn't be surprised.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[Jake de Villiers]

[bobbyblack]

Wait... why don't people use the engine as it was designed? Whats wrong with 4800 rpm? I nearly hit 5100-5200 every time I take it up to highway speed. I have not understood why I shouldn't, and Corkins seems to indicate the system was designed for such use, from what I have read. Seems logical. I didn't really do that much before I got the RMW tuned exhaust, but now it seems like I really feel the pull up high. I'm still delighted by the sound, too, even though it is quite boisterous and probably annoys the neighbors.

Hopeful to get my own 2.2 WBX project going soon. Its just freaking cold in my garage now (hovering in the single digits F.)
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[jberger]

[eeebee]

4200 RPM is normal freeway speed for my automatic.
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1987 Vanagon Wolfsburg Special Edition
GoWesty 2.3

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[livethevanlife]

Following, really interested to see the HP gains with these. I have a mostly stock 2.1 I rebuilt this fall with his rockers, injectors, and have a techtronics tune on the way in the next few days. If I can get in the neighborhood of 120hp or so on the stock 2.1 with his heads on other small mods i'm game.