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#2 main bearing half alignment question
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D/A/N
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:38 pm    Post subject: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

Iím in the process of trying to check oil clearances on my main bearings for a stock engine build. I have a brand new AS41 case and a set of Silverline bearings and my #2 is sitting weirdly in the case. One bearing half is more or less centered in the saddle but the other half is pushed towards #3 and the two bearing halves donít line up perfectly. #2 bore is not out of round.

The bearing half that has me worried is the one on the left in the pic below which I took while looking through the #1 main.

Is this normal? Is the hole in the bearing for the pin in the wrong place? What to do?


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Last edited by D/A/N on Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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txoval
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing seating question Reply with quote

The dowel pin is much smaller than the hole in back of the bearing...slide the bearing over in the saddle so that they even
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D/A/N
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing seating question Reply with quote

txoval wrote:
The dowel pin is much smaller than the hole in back of the bearing...slide the bearing over in the saddle so that they even


Ok. I pulled that bearing half as far back towards the #1 main as I could and even though itís better, the two halves are still misaligned with the left half still slightly shifted towards the #3 main. Pic below.

Is the goal to just slide both halves around on their respective pins until theyíre even? Iíve never heard of this before though itís also my first engine build and maybe itís something you pros think of as second nature.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

The grind marks on the end of the case. Weíre they ground down to set your thrust? Maybe they took more off the one side?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

67 Sunroof wrote:
The grind marks on the end of the case. Weíre they ground down to set your thrust? Maybe they took more off the one side?


Itís a brand new case from the factory, never used. Maybe itís something weird from manufacturing?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
67 Sunroof wrote:
The grind marks on the end of the case. Weíre they ground down to set your thrust? Maybe they took more off the one side?


Itís a brand new case from the factory, never used. Maybe itís something weird from manufacturing?

To me it looks like a clean up after casting the case.
I'll bet they all have that same machining around the bearing saddles.

Disclaimer: I have never had a new case in hand. So I'm speculating. Surprised
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
D/A/N wrote:
67 Sunroof wrote:
The grind marks on the end of the case. Weíre they ground down to set your thrust? Maybe they took more off the one side?


Itís a brand new case from the factory, never used. Maybe itís something weird from manufacturing?

To me it looks like a clean up after casting the case.
I'll bet they all have that same machining around the bearing saddles.

Disclaimer: I have never had a new case in hand. So I'm speculating. Surprised


Well, I hope youíre right because Iíd be pissed if the case was screwed right out of the gate. This shit ainít cheap!!

The case halves are in alignment when I torque it up without bearings but once I put the bearings in, they look like what you see in the pics. Iíve got another set coming tomorrow that I can try with. I can also try the ones I have without the pins to see if I can get them aligned better.

Anything else I should do or look at?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

I had another bearing laying around and it does the same damn thing when installed. Here are pics of the case halves.

These first 2 are of the problematic side with the bearing located on the pin.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The next 3 are of the other side. It looks good though the bearing got scratched in shipping and Iím not planning on using it. And sorry for the blood. I cut myself splitting the case.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

Bleeding is the penance for the home mechanic. We all do it!

Pull the bearing shells and measure the distance from the saddle edge to the pin on both side of the case and see if there's a difference.
Somethings looks fishy.

And don't modify the case. At least if you bought it from a reputable vendor.
You may have to return it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

The bearings need to be aligned to the crankshaft, not the case, not each other. Maybe it is close enough, maybe it isn't.
usually there is enough wiggle room the bearing could've shifted .015 one way or another and still work fine and you'd never know the difference.

You all are a bunch of noobs. Razz Forgetting the crankshaft
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

I had 2 sets of main bearings do the same thing for the center main on my type 4. Itís a little more pronounced on your case. I kind of wiggled them around as I torqued the case but and I guess it made me feel better when measuring to have them more aligned, but I wonít be able to see it when the crank is in.

You could try deburring the ends of the bearing legs where they touch with a few strokes on some 800 grit wet dry on a flat surface.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

maybe a bit harsh but it strikes me as funny.

some tolerances are tighter than others.
1-the bearings being located on the bearing journal of the crank is the most important, usually there is a lot of wiggle room, but it depends on the crank.
2-the location of the left and right bearing halves relative to eachother is less important..... tho I'll agree it does start to look very fishy if they are off opposite directions.
3-the location of the main web is even lower priority. Wopuld be nice if they were perfect but often the machining or casting is very crude. Seems to not be a big deal tho. Cummins b engines the bearings actually hang out the sides of the bearing caps, and it works so well sometimes I wonder if it might be intentional.


Last edited by modok on Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

modok wrote:
The bearings need to be aligned to the crankshaft, not the case, not each other. Maybe it is close enough, maybe it isn't.
usually there is enough wiggle room the bearing could've shifted .015 one way or another and still work fine and you'd never know the difference.

You all are a bunch of noobs. Razz Forgetting the crankshaft


I am a noob with this stuff....thatís why I sent you my 1904 for work! Speaking of which..........you check you PMís anymore?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

Sorry i'm procrastinating apparently
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

orwell84 wrote:
I had 2 sets of main bearings do the same thing for the center main on my type 4. Itís a little more pronounced on your case. I kind of wiggled them around as I torqued the case but and I guess it made me feel better when measuring to have them more aligned, but I wonít be able to see it when the crank is in.

You could try deburring the ends of the bearing legs where they touch with a few strokes on some 800 grit wet dry on a flat surface.


Like I said, this is my first build ever. In my head, if the bearing halves arenít aligned then the oil groove around the outside of the bearing isnít aligned and that sounds like it shouldnít be so. But I donít know what to think. It sounds like your engine is alive and well though!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

Between the two halves you should be able to get them inline and riding on the crank properly.

You may have to move one slight forward and the other back. Then check alignment on crank and then see how the crank spins with the case halves torqued down

The machine work/casting on your case is pretty ugly though...doesnít really mean anything


Last edited by txoval on Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
orwell84 wrote:
I had 2 sets of main bearings do the same thing for the center main on my type 4. Itís a little more pronounced on your case. I kind of wiggled them around as I torqued the case but and I guess it made me feel better when measuring to have them more aligned, but I wonít be able to see it when the crank is in.

You could try deburring the ends of the bearing legs where they touch with a few strokes on some 800 grit wet dry on a flat surface.


Like I said, this is my first build ever. In my head, if the bearing halves arenít aligned then the oil groove around the outside of the bearing isnít aligned and that sounds like it shouldnít be so. But I donít know what to think. It sounds like your engine is alive and well though!


I used persian blue layout die last time to double check oil hole to groove alignment. Think Iíve used sharpie as well. Coat Saddle, set bearing in and remove. Youíll see the groove to oil oil alignment.

As said above as long as the crank lines up youíre good.

I donít have both halves of my center bearings anymore to compare to my last new case but I remember mine werenít perfect in regards to the case alignment. I had to use a burr grinder on the bearing to put a little divot so oil gets to the groove better. I did this on the bearing.. always modify cheapest parts. Iirc I had one that half the hole in the case was outside the oil groove.

I saw a video on YouTube once. I think VW Darren.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
orwell84 wrote:
I had 2 sets of main bearings do the same thing for the center main on my type 4. Itís a little more pronounced on your case. I kind of wiggled them around as I torqued the case but and I guess it made me feel better when measuring to have them more aligned, but I wonít be able to see it when the crank is in.

You could try deburring the ends of the bearing legs where they touch with a few strokes on some 800 grit wet dry on a flat surface.


Like I said, this is my first build ever. In my head, if the bearing halves arenít aligned then the oil groove around the outside of the bearing isnít aligned and that sounds like it shouldnít be so. But I donít know what to think. It sounds like your engine is alive and well though!


Donít feel bad, I asked someone else this question awhile back and got just about the same answer. I notice things now that I didnít before. Sometimes it actually matters. Other times...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

it is a good quesion, how far off is aceptable? you can stump the experts with that. Bearings not being perfectly aligned and oil passages that halfway line up are pretty common, but rarely cause a real problem.
The only big problem I've seen blow stuff up is if the rod bearing does not cover the oil hole.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question Reply with quote

Well, I put the bearings on the crank, put it in the case, torqued it up and spun it around. After pulling it apart and looking at everything, itís pretty clear that the journal is wider than the bearing and that other than the fact that I donít like that the bearing halves donít line up perfectly and the oil passageway is ever so slightly off from side to side, I donít think there will be a problem. Unless Iím missing something. What would be the fix for that anyway? Not for me missing something but for the misalignment.

Also missed something in another way..........

Of course thereís tons of endplay on account of the shortblock not all being assembled and the counterweight rubs the case at #2 when the crank is pushed all the way towards the pulley end of the case. When I pulled the case halves apart, it looked like a small flake of magnesium alloy was resting on the oiling hole of the #2 journal. The #2 bearing, however, was scored on each half. Below is the worst of it. Thankfully, the crank is fine. Normally I donít have that kind of luck. Not sure how I dodged that bullet but Iím glad I didnít scratch the crank Shocked


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