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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing seating question |
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The dowel pin is much smaller than the hole in back of the bearing...slide the bearing over in the saddle so that they even |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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The grind marks on the end of the case. We’re they ground down to set your thrust? Maybe they took more off the one side? _________________ 1776cc, CB crank, CB 2241 cam, CB light lifters, CB H-beam rods, CB light flywheel, Mahle forged pistons, A1 Sidewinder exhaust, Dellorto drla 40’s, Hoover modded case, fully balanced, fully flowed, heads by www.type-emotorsports.com, Air ride suspension by https://www.airkewld.com/?Click=3989 |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9759 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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D/A/N wrote: |
67 Sunroof wrote: |
The grind marks on the end of the case. We’re they ground down to set your thrust? Maybe they took more off the one side? |
It’s a brand new case from the factory, never used. Maybe it’s something weird from manufacturing? |
To me it looks like a clean up after casting the case.
I'll bet they all have that same machining around the bearing saddles.
Disclaimer: I have never had a new case in hand. So I'm speculating. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9759 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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Bleeding is the penance for the home mechanic. We all do it!
Pull the bearing shells and measure the distance from the saddle edge to the pin on both side of the case and see if there's a difference.
Somethings looks fishy.
And don't modify the case. At least if you bought it from a reputable vendor.
You may have to return it. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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The bearings need to be aligned to the crankshaft, not the case, not each other. Maybe it is close enough, maybe it isn't.
usually there is enough wiggle room the bearing could've shifted .015 one way or another and still work fine and you'd never know the difference.
You all are a bunch of noobs. Forgetting the crankshaft |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2536 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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I had 2 sets of main bearings do the same thing for the center main on my type 4. It’s a little more pronounced on your case. I kind of wiggled them around as I torqued the case but and I guess it made me feel better when measuring to have them more aligned, but I won’t be able to see it when the crank is in.
You could try deburring the ends of the bearing legs where they touch with a few strokes on some 800 grit wet dry on a flat surface. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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maybe a bit harsh but it strikes me as funny.
some tolerances are tighter than others.
1-the bearings being located on the bearing journal of the crank is the most important, usually there is a lot of wiggle room, but it depends on the crank.
2-the location of the left and right bearing halves relative to eachother is less important..... tho I'll agree it does start to look very fishy if they are off opposite directions.
3-the location of the main web is even lower priority. Wopuld be nice if they were perfect but often the machining or casting is very crude. Seems to not be a big deal tho. Cummins b engines the bearings actually hang out the sides of the bearing caps, and it works so well sometimes I wonder if it might be intentional.
Last edited by modok on Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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Sorry i'm procrastinating apparently |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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Between the two halves you should be able to get them inline and riding on the crank properly.
You may have to move one slight forward and the other back. Then check alignment on crank and then see how the crank spins with the case halves torqued down
The machine work/casting on your case is pretty ugly though...doesn’t really mean anything
Last edited by txoval on Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ekacpuc Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010 Posts: 1414 Location: ketchikan alaska
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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D/A/N wrote: |
orwell84 wrote: |
I had 2 sets of main bearings do the same thing for the center main on my type 4. It’s a little more pronounced on your case. I kind of wiggled them around as I torqued the case but and I guess it made me feel better when measuring to have them more aligned, but I won’t be able to see it when the crank is in.
You could try deburring the ends of the bearing legs where they touch with a few strokes on some 800 grit wet dry on a flat surface. |
Like I said, this is my first build ever. In my head, if the bearing halves aren’t aligned then the oil groove around the outside of the bearing isn’t aligned and that sounds like it shouldn’t be so. But I don’t know what to think. It sounds like your engine is alive and well though! |
I used persian blue layout die last time to double check oil hole to groove alignment. Think I’ve used sharpie as well. Coat Saddle, set bearing in and remove. You’ll see the groove to oil oil alignment.
As said above as long as the crank lines up you’re good.
I don’t have both halves of my center bearings anymore to compare to my last new case but I remember mine weren’t perfect in regards to the case alignment. I had to use a burr grinder on the bearing to put a little divot so oil gets to the groove better. I did this on the bearing.. always modify cheapest parts. Iirc I had one that half the hole in the case was outside the oil groove.
I saw a video on YouTube once. I think VW Darren. |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2536 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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D/A/N wrote: |
orwell84 wrote: |
I had 2 sets of main bearings do the same thing for the center main on my type 4. It’s a little more pronounced on your case. I kind of wiggled them around as I torqued the case but and I guess it made me feel better when measuring to have them more aligned, but I won’t be able to see it when the crank is in.
You could try deburring the ends of the bearing legs where they touch with a few strokes on some 800 grit wet dry on a flat surface. |
Like I said, this is my first build ever. In my head, if the bearing halves aren’t aligned then the oil groove around the outside of the bearing isn’t aligned and that sounds like it shouldn’t be so. But I don’t know what to think. It sounds like your engine is alive and well though! |
Don’t feel bad, I asked someone else this question awhile back and got just about the same answer. I notice things now that I didn’t before. Sometimes it actually matters. Other times... |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:02 am Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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it is a good quesion, how far off is aceptable? you can stump the experts with that. Bearings not being perfectly aligned and oil passages that halfway line up are pretty common, but rarely cause a real problem.
The only big problem I've seen blow stuff up is if the rod bearing does not cover the oil hole. |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: #2 main bearing half alignment question |
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Well, I put the bearings on the crank, put it in the case, torqued it up and spun it around. After pulling it apart and looking at everything, it’s pretty clear that the journal is wider than the bearing and that other than the fact that I don’t like that the bearing halves don’t line up perfectly and the oil passageway is ever so slightly off from side to side, I don’t think there will be a problem. Unless I’m missing something. What would be the fix for that anyway? Not for me missing something but for the misalignment.
Also missed something in another way..........
Of course there’s tons of endplay on account of the shortblock not all being assembled and the counterweight rubs the case at #2 when the crank is pushed all the way towards the pulley end of the case. When I pulled the case halves apart, it looked like a small flake of magnesium alloy was resting on the oiling hole of the #2 journal. The #2 bearing, however, was scored on each half. Below is the worst of it. Thankfully, the crank is fine. Normally I don’t have that kind of luck. Not sure how I dodged that bullet but I’m glad I didn’t scratch the crank
_________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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