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Time to replace my starter...
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Hybrid VW
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:23 am    Post subject: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

The stock starter on my '87 Westy is starting to hang up and not disengage with the cold weather. I was hoping it would last until the weather warmed up, but I'd rather replace it in the cold, than have it decide not to work when needed.

So what's the best current option? I've seen discussions in the past about geared starters, but I'm not sure if there's a benefit on a stock engine (I don't plan on any crazy swaps, either). Just need help deciding which route to go.... Thanks!
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Igeo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

There have been many Vanagon owners who have gone the route of installing the more easily obtainable and much higher torque TDI starter using this adapter http://www.westyventures.com/parts.html

The connector to the solenoid is slightly different and can be obtained online or found at a wrecking yard like I did. The TDI starter is also self-supporting, eliminating the need to fuss with swapping out the bushing in the bell housing as with the stock Vanagon starter.

The actual starter is easy to find. I used a rebuilt Bosch unit and it really works well. I think the year range is from 1996 through at least 2006.
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sanchius Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Lots of good info on the great TDI starter upgrade:https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9380650&highlight=starter#9380650

" it made a huge difference and I have never had the car start so well. OMG what a difference. I will never use a stock rebuilt beetle, bus, vanagon starter again. This has made such a world of difference. "
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

I have the westyventures adapter and shorter 1.8t starter in my stock engine van. Cranks the engine over better than the 1hp stock starter did.
One attractive thing is that you can buy a brand new bosch starter rather than some 30 year old core that has been rebuilt several times already. When shopping for a starter look for a N suffix that denotes new, X is rebuilt.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

You might just need to replace the starter bushing and/or lubricate the starter solenoid.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Double post, delete

Last edited by Wildthings on Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hardway
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

I have been installing The new Bosch SR0425N starters in Vanagons lately. The first one I did was for my 1.8t conversion. I have been using them for wasserboxers also. They might last longer than the vans and probably me. The thought of never having a malfunctioning starter again is very appealing to me especially on a Syncro. I am using relays to power the solenoid now also to save the ignition switch. The supply of good ignition switches is drying up now. The value you receive for the money spent is much higher than the value you would get from buying an original starter that has been rebuilt 7 times.

If you still have your original starter. You get get it repaired but probably for not much less than updating to the brand new Mexican made starter. If you upgrade, buy the adapter from Karl.
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thegreenroom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Replaced my stock starter with the Gowesty gear reduction starter and it was a HUGE improvement, I highly recommend it. My original starter was very tired, slow at turning over, - often to the extent that I couldn't start my van at times in cold weather. The Gowesty starter solved all that, now it's super fast and easy to start, and starts every time.

Dan
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thatbaldwinlife
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Another vote for a TDI starter and the WestyVentures adapter.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

I have a diesel and I went the TDI starter route. Got an adapter and got 2 starters with the pig tails for cheap from the junk yard. I've had 0 issues so far and I daily mine. Starts fine even after having been cold soaked over night at 0F.
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heidi85ho
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

VanCafe also offers a hi torque Denso starter that does not require an adapter plate. It’s brand new so no core exchange. Around $250
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Your starter may just need a cleaning and lube. There are YouTube videos for doing a Bosch starter. I have an 02 TDI starter that hangs up a bit. I tried taking the solenoid apart and lubing it. It worked for a while but needs to be taken apart further

Edit: here is one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9qnnf2kWU
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Hybrid VW
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Thanks for the input everyone! I just ordered the Desno geared unit from VC. $195, brand new, and the adaptor doesn't look like a knock off of Karl's. I definitely empathize with his situation there!

I'm sure mine just needs to be taken apart and cleaned, but I have too much stuff going on right now, so getting another unit and just doing an R&R is the best way to go for me this time around.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Hybrid VW wrote:
So what's the best current option?


"current option?" you ask?
Best current option is to assess the starter ground path before condemning the starter.
Starter assessment is step 3.

The vanagon starter ground path is appx four or five 30-40-year old, outdoor, dissimilar metals connections.... in series.
So the resistance of each connection, adds to the previous.
It can add up to a lot of resistance for the (60-80 amps?)

For an "old" vehicle, its the worst condition imagineable.
Its the most asinine ground path in the history of automobiles.
Any attention given the existing transaxle ground cable is polishing a turd.
Including replacement with a new starter ground strap.
Because several of the connections are un-inspectable.
All you know is they've been outdoors for 30-40 years.

The best "current option" is to delete the VW starter ground at the end of the transaxle.
Replace it with a (properly direct) ground cable from the lower starter bolt to the vanagon chassis.

Then inspecting just two locations you KNOW your ground path is GOOD.
Then inspect the positive (red) cable and it's connections too.
Then go to step 3 and assess the starter condition.
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

FWIW, the 'Denso' is still the same thing as the IMI that led to me designing the adaptor. The Denso is also only 1.0 kw and not an upgrade in power / cranking power.
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4Gears4Tires
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Is it a manual?

This one is $70 and lists a 1kW power rating. However, mine came with a dyno sheet stating 1.55kW and it cranks over really fast. I'm impressed with it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KL51S6O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edit: I wonder if this one bolts in without an adapter. https://www.amazon.com/Rareelectrical-REDUCTION-ST...B00KL51S6O
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

I was told but I am not certain that a Porsche 911 SR68X starter with a 901/915 transmission will work as a replacement for an automatic transmission Vanagon starter.

Does anyone know? The SR68X Bosch starters are plentiful and not too expensive. You can find high torque versions that dont require adapters too.
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SSWesty
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

I had good luck with cleaning and lubricating my starter. Frankly a couple squirts of WD40 probably would have been enough to get it going again but I cleaned and lubed it.

If anyone is short on $$ I'd definitely recommend trying to clean and lube your existing starter. I actually don't understand the need for the hi-torque starters, my van is an 89 and still starts fine with factory starter. Maybe I am just lucky.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

SSWesty wrote:
I had good luck with cleaning and lubricating my starter. Frankly a couple squirts of WD40 probably would have been enough to get it going again but I cleaned and lubed it.

If anyone is short on $$ I'd definitely recommend trying to clean and lube your existing starter. I actually don't understand the need for the hi-torque starters, my van is an 89 and still starts fine with factory starter. Maybe I am just lucky.


At around 350K miles I am still on my original starter on my '91 and for the last 10 years it has been starting a 2.2 Subaru. The solenoid has needed lubing twice IIRC.
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Hybrid VW
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Time to replace my starter... Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
SSWesty wrote:
I had good luck with cleaning and lubricating my starter. Frankly a couple squirts of WD40 probably would have been enough to get it going again but I cleaned and lubed it.

If anyone is short on $$ I'd definitely recommend trying to clean and lube your existing starter. I actually don't understand the need for the hi-torque starters, my van is an 89 and still starts fine with factory starter. Maybe I am just lucky.


At around 350K miles I am still on my original starter on my '91 and for the last 10 years it has been starting a 2.2 Subaru. The solenoid has needed lubing twice IIRC.

I'm sure that's all mine needs, I just don't have the time to do it right now. It starts the engine just fine, but takes a few seconds to disengage. Earlier this winter, it wouldn't ENgage, so I crawled under it with a heat gun and got it nice and warm, and engagement hasn't been a problem since.
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