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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:51 pm Post subject: Draining the gas tank. |
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So i haven't driven the car since August 2019 and even though I put Sta-Bil in I figured it would be best to drain the tank and fill it with fresh when the time comes to get it back on the road. The easiest way would be to siphon it into a 5 gallon can and dump the gas into my daily driver.
Things went well for the 1st 5 gallons but the 2nd 5 gallons were a no go. You see the gas can needs to be lower than the gas tank and since the car is lowered 3" so after about a gallon... it stopped. I had to use a hand pump to get the last few gallons out.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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brando90gl
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Joined: July 31, 2007
Posts: 411
Location: Marion,NC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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I just did a tank replacement on a new to me single cab, had about half a tank of fuel. Raised truck high enough to get a 5 gallon bucket under it, put a fuel line clamp on the short piece of fuel hose under tank spigot, disconnected hose and let her rip into the bucket.
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67 Type 1
68 Campmobile
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grandpa red
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Joined: November 23, 2018
Posts: 520
Location: Hollister,Ca.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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Should have dug a hole to get the gas can lower!
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'72 Beetle |
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Zundfolge1432
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Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| If you have access to compressed air you can pressurize the tank just a little. |
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Michael Ambrozik
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Joined: October 17, 2020
Posts: 631
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Lift the front and rear and continue. |
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samm1
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Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 217
Location: Saskatoon,Sask.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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I used an electric fuel pump inline. Disconnect the line at Carb And start filling Jerry cans.
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viiking
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Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 2668
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| If you have access to compressed air you can pressurize the tank just a little. |
PLEASE DON'T DO THIS.
Apart from the obvious issue of over-pressurising the tank and rupture, many people are not aware of the inherent danger of introducing air into a fuel tank.
As I have said in some other threads, I worked in the oil and chemical industry for 45 years in a number of roles including process safety.
Introducing air into a tank, particularly one that is getting empty can lead to an explosion. Why?
You all know you need air, fuel and an ignition source. Just like a car engine, if the air fuel ratio is not close to 15:1 you won't get the explosion. But where's the spark?
Under some circumstances (usually tragic) compressed air can carry an electrostatic charge which can ignite fuel. Air flowing through a plastic hose or an un-earthed system can introduce different electric potentials in the air and on the hose. Again under some circumstances this can be sufficient to catastrophically ignite the fuel. In addition just introducing a lot of air into even a vented fuel tank can force the fuel vapour plume to exit the tank looking for the first available ignition source like a sparking electric tool or a pilot light in the hot water tank!
In industry only an inert gas such as Nitrogen was allowed to be used in such circumstances. This is called "blanketing". Removing the oxygen prevented explosion. I have personally been involved in risk assessing welding on partially full oil tanks which ordinarily would explode but are made safe by blanketing. Of course we had very sophisticated instruments to measure the fuel, nitrogen and air concentrations. Similar operations called "hot tapping" are used when people have to weld a new valve connection into an operating oil line full and pumping.
Many will say that "I've done this many/hundreds/thousands of times and nothing happened". True, but under some circumstances when the stars align explosions can and do happen.
A safer way would be (if you can safely regulate the gas flow and pressure) would be to add some CO2/Argon into the tank as an inert gas.
I don't want this to be too much of a lecture, but if you are interested, read up about Upper and Lower Explosive Limits (UEL,LEL).
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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Zundfolge1432
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Joined: June 13, 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Don’t tell anyone in aircraft maintenance. We’ve done it this way for decades. Now obviously you don’t exceed about 2 PSI. Boeing, Lockheed, Douglas, Airbus etc. it’s in the manual. The kits which we used many times used shop air going through an ordinary air hose to a regulator. You introduced the air till you achieved 2 PSI which is plenty. How do think you find leaks in a wet wing? I know what you are thinking, kerosene isn’t as volatile tell that to TWA flight 800. Regardless it’s been standard practice to induce air into tanks at least since the 1950s. Go figure. |
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Tim Donahoe
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Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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I just pulled the fuel tank on my 1974 Super Beetle.
I use a floor jack to lift up the front end, and place jack stands to hold the car up; then I get under the car, undo the fuel line that goes from the tank to the tunnel, and let the fuel fill the can.
If I have more than the two gallons that fills my can, I pinch off the hose with small Vice grips, pour the gas into another car, then go back and repeat the draining. When completely drained, I reattach the hose to the tunnel and I’m all done.
By the way, now is a good time to replace the fuel filter under the tank.
Tim
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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I was just draining 18 month old gas and didn't want to make a project out of it.
No jack, no tools, no electric pump and battery.... just a siphon.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Zundfolge1432
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Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Just getting the old fuel fuel out is best. You are ahead of it turning into varnish now😀 |
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viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 2668
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| Don’t tell anyone in aircraft maintenance. We’ve done it this way for decades. Now obviously you don’t exceed about 2 PSI. Boeing, Lockheed, Douglas, Airbus etc. it’s in the manual. The kits which we used many times used shop air going through an ordinary air hose to a regulator. You introduced the air till you achieved 2 PSI which is plenty. How do think you find leaks in a wet wing? I know what you are thinking, kerosene isn’t as volatile tell that to TWA flight 800. Regardless it’s been standard practice to induce air into tanks at least since the 1950s. Go figure. |
I didn’t want this to become a treatise. Nor did I wish to insult you.
I agree if you have specific protocols, trained technicians and someone who has determined the air velocity and restriction and you have zero particulates in your air that decreases electrostatic charge and you have antistatic hoses with adequate charge dissipation then you can probably get away with it.
But the average Joe doesn’t have those and their hose which they’ve been blasting the dust off their car gas just created an electrostatic charge.
I was highlighting a possible danger to those that don’t think about it. I remember seeing stupid kids dropping matches into buckets of fuel saying that it didn’t blow. Well maybe they were above the Upper Explosive Limit and got away with it. But on a hot day with someone just holding the match a little higher in the air you have a tragedy.
Same as TWA800. A number of unlikely events all add up to a tragedy. The less likely a thing is to cause a tragedy is the one with the greatest impact when it does go wrong.
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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Nbraynard
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Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| I am more interested as to why one would leave a bug with a tankful of gasoline sitting for 18 months. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Nbraynard wrote: |
| I am more interested as to why one would leave a bug with a tankful of gasoline sitting for 18 months. |
Uh... pandemic, so no place to take it. And other things to do.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Zundfolge1432
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Joined: June 13, 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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Sorry to have gone off topic.
Last edited by Zundfolge1432 on Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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68IHscout
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Joined: March 10, 2010
Posts: 3122
Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| What is the problem of just driving it (unless its not driveable) ? Kind of reminds me of quigley down under where the guy shoots off the rounds in he's gun so he can fill it with fresh bullets. 2€ worth |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| 68IHscout wrote: |
| What is the problem of just driving it (unless its not driveable) ? Kind of reminds me of quigley down under where the guy shoots off the rounds in he's gun so he can fill it with fresh bullets. 2€ worth |
Don't want stale gas running through 2 freshly rebuild carbs.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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68IHscout
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Joined: March 10, 2010
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Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| 68IHscout wrote: |
| What is the problem of just driving it (unless its not driveable) ? Kind of reminds me of quigley down under where the guy shoots off the rounds in he's gun so he can fill it with fresh bullets. 2€ worth |
Don't want stale gas running through 2 freshly rebuild carbs. |
that makes perfect sense. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| 68IHscout wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| 68IHscout wrote: |
| What is the problem of just driving it (unless its not driveable) ? Kind of reminds me of quigley down under where the guy shoots off the rounds in he's gun so he can fill it with fresh bullets. 2€ worth |
Don't want stale gas running through 2 freshly rebuild carbs. |
that makes perfect sense. |
I'm not as dumb as I look 
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Nbraynard
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Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Draining the gas tank. |
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| Wouldn't there be stale gas sitting inside the newly rebuilt carbs? |
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