Oil Temp too high?

[SmokerF15]

Long read...
Putting final touches on partial rebuild. Novice DIY.
Data:
I live at 4K ft above sea level. OAT @45 F

Engine: 2.0L with new HAM heads. @ 35K miles on lower end. Compression (#1-113, #2-113, #3-110, #4-110). With .893 factor adjustment the lowest compression at sea level would be #3 at 123. Incidentally, #3 has a leak down rate of @17psi vs @2psi on the other cylinders. I know this isn't a good stat, but engine doesn't seem to be burning oil...

Hydraulic lifters: Set when engine is warm--tried 2 turns preload, 1 turns preload, now at 3/4 trun. Seems to run better with 3/4 turn preload

Dual HPMX 44 carbs: set and synch

Pertronix dizzy (tried both 5 & 7.5 deg BTDC). Seems like @5 is the happy place?? Also, when I increase the RPMs the timing mark (w/timing light) does not advance to 28 deg?? Is this correct with an electronic ignition??

New thermostat from Awesome Powdercoat. Read somewhere that it should be set when engine is warm. Is this correct? All tin is on engine on a stand. At operating temp, I borescoped through the spark plug tin-hole to confirm the flappers were in correct place.

VDO Oil temp sender on taco plate mod. Pretty sure I'm using the correct sender and gauge. New Oil cooler, but NOT new oil pump or oil pressure spring assembly. Initially tried Redline 20W50, but now running straight Castrol 30W to see if oil pressure/temps would change.

Seems to start nicely and idle fine for awhile. Oil pressure at 30 psi for some time. Oil temp seems to rise to 180 in a normal manner. Revs good. Somewhere around 200 deg, oil pressure drops to @10 (idle) and temp shoots up above 220. Cylinder head temp (Dakota sender under #3 spark plug) hovers around low 200s.

Questions: Do I have an oil pressure/tempurature problem? What would be the next step to mitigate?

Thanks for any help on this.

SmokerF15

[Matt Wilson]

You should probably set the timing dynamically at full advance, and let the idle timing fall wherever it does. You could fatten up the jets too if everything else seems correct.

[Ohio Tom]

Yeah, something is making the oil run hot.

Agreed with setting timing at full advance 28-32deg and try that.

A lean condition would make the heads hotter. Not seeing that, so I think you are close on jetting.

I'd be more worried about enough cooling capacity.
Is the oil cooler clean? (they can get stuff packed into them and block flow).
Are the engine compartment seals all in place? (any leak will make it run hot).
Engine compartment must be completely sealed up or it will draw hot air back into the engine. No daylight around the seals or edges anywhere.

[orwell84]

If you were driving a bus on the highway on a hot day 220-230 would not be a big deal but running on the stand with no load...

Oil pressure does drop off when the oil gets hot but same thing, not on a stand. I had this happen breaking in an engine. The thermostat cable was snagged on something and the cooling flaps wouldn’t open. One thing to check...

[mark tucker]

oil temps can be caused by many things. dead oil, oil thats not doing it's job. debris in the oil, debris in the bearings,debris in the skirts,gaulded rocker shafts. dead dying cam,not preping the cylinders's properly,a oil system thats not up to the task, not enough oil flow and much more.even the breaking on of a new engine and not changing the oil & filter in the first 35 min of life then both again soon after to help get all the debris out of it oil before it clogs the filter and bypasses the debris to the bearings to have lunch with the crank. Ive seen tomany new engines killed by cheep ass morons wanting to save $15 on oil& filter and insist on a 500 mile breakin....you cant fix stupid.

[SmokerF15]

Thanks all for the comments.

I only replaced the heads and did not crack the case. I have new oil, screen, filter etc, but NOT new oil pump. The engine is on the stand without the engine seal, just the tin housing. I'll double check that the stat is working correctly.

When I changed the oil (20W50 to 30W) there were tiny flakes (2-3mm) of what looked like varnish. Is there a treatment that I could add to eliminate any old clogging in the oil pathways?

I'm at 4K above sea level. If the carbs were jetted at SL, could this be a problem?

Is where I have the oil temp sender the issue (taco pate)? Is there a better location to measure the temp?

[Alstrup]

That looks like a VDA made in Malaysia. They are not the most accurate. Have you checked the sensor against water?
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[King_vw61]

X2 set total advance to 31 or 32, idle is what it is, will be smoother at a higher initial timing.

At the dyno the guy lowered my timing to 28 total, and it ran hotter than ever on the way home. Changed it back to 31 and then it was fine.
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1961 Ragtop, Autocraft 2783cc for street/strip 10k miles and counting...230.84 HP to the wheels thru Muffler 13.4 to 1 on E85
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[SmokerF15]

Thanks for the help. Great idea. I'll check the gauge and sender against water that I know is a particular temp.

On the timing with Petronix module and the advance indication: I'm not clear on exactly what i need to do irt what I'm looking on the timing scale. I have TDC mark on my pully, and a timing degree scale. When I set the advance to 5 deg TDC, I can see it all line up; the flash, the mark, and the scale. When I rev the motor, even to 3K, all the indications are the same (the flash, the mark, scale) still @5 deg???

Should I then manually twist the dizzy to get 31 deg adv.

Dumb question. Doesn't the Pertronix module compensate for the required advance?

SmokerF15

[mikedjames]

Your distributor should change the advance, not the electronic module.

If the advance is not changing with RPM, the distributor is faulty.

It should change timing between about 7 degrees at idle and about 30 degrees at high RPM just with RPM. If it had a vacuum advance you would see even more at some engine loads.

So to get the engine to produce more power you are going to be putting in a lot of extra fuel to burn late. Does it spit flames out of the exhaust ? That could be why it is hot because you are burning so much fuel.
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Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[oprn]

[Wreck]

I had a similar experience when I first got my type 4 running in a Ghia , nice head temps but high and climbing oil temp . I also had the temp sender in the plate at the rear .

My issue was radiated heat from the header . My header runs quite close to the back of the engine .A simple heat shield made from the proper heat shield embossed aluminium fixed the problem .

Stock Type 4's like a little more advance than a type 1 , up to 34degrees advance with the vacuum disconnected . The stock distributor in good condition is the best choice for the engine .

[cbeck]

Sounds like your advance is not working.
Had a brain fart on my last fresh motor, static timed it to after tdc instead of before. Result was not enough advance. Realized after break in when setting timing with a lite. That is the only time in 4 years the thermostat kicked on the remote cooler fan.
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[SmokerF15]

Copy all the recommendations. Thanks again.

I'll check out the use of a heat shield, test the temp sender in water, look into my distributor and try advance @32 deg once it get the problem figured out.

Here's what I now about the dizzy.The distributor shaft has some play--hard to tell if it's too much. The unit itself has no noticeable brand markings but looks like it had a vacuum advance can etc. I do have another dizzy that the PO gave me. But not sure it is actually compatible with my engine??

Is the a way to test/ know why the advance is not working? Is it a mechanical break/malfunction?

Current distributor

Other distributor from PO.

If I were to switch back to a vacuum advance set up, where do I run the vacuum line? I don't see a port/fitting on the carbs I have.

[mukluk]

[Alstrup]

Stop stop.
It sounds like somebody has been "creative" with that distributor. My hunch is that it may be locked. If I am correct that´s why you see no advance. so that distributor is only worth something if you go programmable like CB Black box, Daytona or someting similar in its current state.

The dual vacum distributor is better, but not really good. It was one VW´s attempts to control idle emissions, which they also abandoned already after about 2 years I believe.

The easy way is to get another distributor, maybe with vacum. Question is which to recommend. I am not super impressed with the newer Pertronix. Maybe buy it from someone that can actually check it before shipping, like Aircooled.net
OR take the plunge and buy a programmable unit like the CB Black box or Daytona SC1 and use your currect distributor.
With the programmable you have some learning to do, but it is so much better in the long run.

When you get to it you should aim for 10 idle, 28-30 on WOT and 38- up to 40 on full vacum. if the engine has stock CR it will like 40.
The reason why Ivikings saw higher temps with 28 degrees on cruise is that the burn is too slow at lean(er) cruise. It only works on WOT or close to.

When you get as far as to get the ignition sorted you will also find that Castrol SAE30 is not your best bet either. With mineral oils a type 4 need/want no more than 15/40. With synthtic 20/50 can be ok, especially in warmer climates.
When you run straight 30 oil the oil relief system "thinks" that the engine is semi cold all the time.
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[Matt Wilson]

Yeah check the little stop plates and mechanism under the points plate in the distributor. Also, I'm guessing that the 'twist' is not where it's actually 'run'?

Not until I moved to the west coast have I seen so many distributors installed in creative ways. Check for top dead center and get the distributor installed in the correct orientation before you even attempt to start messing with timing.

Also, I wouldn't sweat the high altitude stuff at this juncture. I moved from Denver to Oregon and haven't really had any issues with engine running too hot or anything like that, and I run mine at 32 BTDC at full advance. They don't seem to care what fuel I put through them either... pretty forgiving, when the engine is setup correctly.

[Bruce Amacker]

[Oil Phil-M]

On the topic of gauge accuracy i notice that when I turn my dashlights (12 incandescent bulbs in total) on/off my VDO oil pressure gauge goes down/up while the VDO oil temp gauge goes up/down. Slight change in the voltage seems to have an effect on the readings. I've been meaning to go through my wiring and try and figure out how to improve it. The positive power sources are different for the bulbs and gauges but I connected all the negatives for both the bulbs and the gauges together for each gauge cluster.

What are you using for a power source in your situation? If you are using a stand alone battery which just started the engine, wondering if the battery voltage would give you an inaccurate gauge output compared to an electrical source powered by an alternator which would be operating at a slightly higher voltage? Have never done any accurate analysis of this; just sharing thoughts in my head and emphasizing the need to check the accuracy of any instrument prior to its use.

[SmokerF15]

Going to test the oil temp sender in water today.

Likely going back to Redline 10/40 for ZDDP levels, and all the other good reasons. Oil brand recommendations for my situation?

I'm done messing with the current dizzy. It has corrosion in places and the Pertronix module looks like it has seen better days. Ordered a new Pertronix Flame-Thrower 2069 from CB Perf. Talked to a guy named Mark. I'm assuming they're reputable, and selling a good product...we'll see.

Gauge wiring: Looks like I have a jumper from the Oil press gage, which gets its power from a fused wire that runs to the battery. Ground goes to directly to the battery as well. Is there a better way to set this up for accuracy??


Thanks all!