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vik Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 204 Location: back in Czech
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: Hot water heated by engine |
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Hi
I'm thinking how to ad bit of comfort to our tents on wheels.
Almost by coincidence I found UK company Surejust https://www.surejust.co.uk/10-litre-horizontal-single-coil-surecal-calorifier and they are making calorifiers with thermostatic mixing valve to get reasonable hot water out of the unit.
img]https://www.surejust.co.uk/Images/uploaded/calorifier-connections.png[/img]
I shall not be connected to the cooling system if the water system is empty. I thought about using a valve(s) and put it under the rear westy seat instead of rear heater.
Is this whole concept a good or foolish idea? _________________ T3 Syncro camper in progress |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Boats have been doing this for years and you don't necessarily need a valve. Usually these hot water heaters are continuously full and replenished by a pressure system for the main water tanks. An insulated tank under the floor with the radiator lines going through it with a copper pipe would heat up 4 or 5 gallons just fine. it would take a few miles, but would work even without a more flow restrictive water to water heat exchanger. |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2325 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Cheaper, easier, and more versatile would be a Zodi water heater (forget their shower attachment, get a better one).
http://zodi.com/hot-showers/hot-tap-with-case
With the ubiquitous 5 gallon bucket which heats up in a few minutes if you re-circulate, this can provide all the hot water you need. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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mikemtnbike Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015 Posts: 2796 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Yeah I've made my own hot water heaters that scavenge heat off wood stoves, been going on since before the combustion engine. This can happen, just a question of figuring out how. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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It would be nice to have hot water, but the problem is how much water it takes to live off the grid. Showering would burn through quite a bit of your supply. We will boil water for dish washing or boil extra water when making coffee, for the warm wash cloth in the am.
But yes, using the engine to heat water in place of the rear heater core would be the easiest thing to do. Post pictures. _________________ ☮️ |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6832 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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One thing to consider and remember is that a Stop Leak might clog a heat exchanger with small passages.
If you get one like that it might be a good idea to install isolation valves to close it off to keep it separate from the cooling loop in case you need to add some. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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spitsnrovers Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2005 Posts: 924 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Have you seen this DIY job?
http://www.griffco.ca/VW/vwshower.htm _________________ '88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500 |
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JEL91Westy Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Central PA
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Don’t want hijack this thread, but wonder if any one has come up with a good way to get hot water from a CDH. Heating the water with the engine is great, but if you aren’t driving, and already running a heater, not having to start the van and idle would be ideal. Any thoughts anyone? _________________ 91 Westy
85 911 |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2325 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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There's a version of the CDH that will heat water. Best to go to the CDH thread... _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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jordauto Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2011 Posts: 218 Location: Sorrento,BC
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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I don't know if I have any pics of my set up. But I used an EGR cooler off of an ALH 1.9TDI as found in 98-2003ish Golf and Jetta models. It's mounted by the engine (which is a Subaru 2.2) and the main heater feed hose runs through the part that coolant normally goes through. My fresh water shower pump feeds the water through the passages where the exhaust gas went in the Jetta. Its a well made stainless steel water to water heat exchanger. I mounted in vertically in the engine bay and the fresh water input comes from a quick coupler under the bumper. The fresh water side is completely self draining by gravity so it can never freeze and break causing a coolant leak on that side of the heat exchanger. I use a 12 volt plug in pump and shower head from Amazon. With the engine at operating temperature the water heats up enough in a single pass to take 4c water from a creek and have a hot shower standing in the snow. I vary the temperature of the water by adjusting the flow. Less flow = hotter water. An anti scald valve or mixer would make it more user friendly though. |
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vino de vano Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2016 Posts: 359 Location: columbia gorge
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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My home made heat exchanger, inspired buy Natcho.
Copper has gone up, so its not cheep to build these days. I deleted my rear heater so its plumbed into the front heater loop, I also have a heater bypass loop for summer when the front heater is closed off. _________________ what a long strange trip it's been |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6832 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Later model cars have enough oil coolers on them that you should be able to find one you can use as a heat exchanger for shower water after you flush them out adequately to water use.
For example the Volvo V60 has one measuring about 4-5" x 2".
A drawback is that they have small passages and will seal if you put a stop leak in the cooling system so best to ad isolating valves to close it off from the cooling system if you ad a stop leak. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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VanWine--Yours is perfect. Is that 3/8ths tubing you wound around a mandril? With some foam insulation and fiberglass to protect it you would have even more efficiency. If you insulate the hot water line going out, you will also have a thermosyphon which will heat the tank without even drawing from it. Or a small 12v boat pump could circulate it and only run while the engine is running and not cause an unwanted electrical load. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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vino de vano wrote: |
My home made heat exchanger, inspired buy Natcho.
Copper has gone up, so its not cheep to build these days. I deleted my rear heater so its plumbed into the front heater loop, I also have a heater bypass loop for summer when the front heater is closed off. |
Nice execution. _________________ ☮️ |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7468 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Pretty...
_________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7468 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Here's one of the latest, most complete examples of this. They talked about selling these as a kit.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=733805
It seems the water would be cold a few hours after turning the engine off so this never appealed to me.
Similar to the Zodi, I use a propane fueled on-demand hot water heater.
_________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Californio Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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If you still have your trusty Dometic, you could accomplish the same thing by wrapping the copper tubing around the exhaust and then plumbing to wherever. Since it's so close, a tank under the sink would be easy.
The advantage to this would be that you'd have hot water even when the engine was cold, as long as the Dometic pilot was lighted. |
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vik Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 204 Location: back in Czech
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Thank you for feedback.
I did not decided to go with the project so far. But I do like the idea.
As for water capacity - do have 80l fresh water tank under floor.
As for hot water is only when driving - I'm ok with it. We do generally travel every day. If we stay longer it is mostly a camp site with showers.
Due to the lockdown I can not get to the workshop at the moment. Can someone be so kind and measure the westy rear seat (for 2 persons) if the 10l will fit there?
Length 575mm
Width 240mm
Height 245mm
I would prefer under floor unit. Will look on that option as well. What I do like on this product is that it contains the mixing valve as well as it is isolated and will contain the heat for reasonable amount of time. _________________ T3 Syncro camper in progress |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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Looks like someone has made a still before. _________________ ☮️ |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Hot water heated by engine |
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All that kit instead of a Zodi? Crazy _________________ .ssS! |
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