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Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic
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Cees Klumper
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:28 pm    Post subject: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Last week, I picked up my first Volkswagen, here in Long Beach. This car was actually featured in a Bring-a-trailer article on the 411 back in 2012, when it was being offered on Craiglist for $4,200. Fast forward to now, the previous owner had it since 2017 and stopped driving it about two years ago, he said. Doing some browsing on this site, I found another previous owner who apparently rebuilt the engine back in 2015. The engine still has its fuel injection and I could tell it had been looked after, and also it runs very well. I am waiting for some parts to arrive: brake discs/pads/hoses/shoes and wheel bearings, as at least one of the bearings is bad. Once that's done, in another week or so I will be making a loooong trip to pick up a clean hood, a rear fender and some other parts. Despite having lived most or all its life in California, the car does have some serious rust in a few places (like the hood) although the chassis and floors are mostly very sound. My plan is to address the rust, repaint the car, and then just basically have it as my daily driver. I will probably have some questions along the way.
My other older cars are a '90 Bronco (also daily driver), a '69 Triumph Spitfire that is waiting its turn to be restored, and the car I am mostly working on at the moment, a '73 Lancia Fulvia.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Welcome to the group Cees!
Nice to see another Type4 on the road, by the way what year model and color is it?
I can guess -70 or -71 by the steering wheel type...

/Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
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Cees Klumper
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

It's a '71. Have not found a color code or name anywhere, is there a typical place to look for that? I think these are very cool cars, but they seem to be quite rare.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Cees Klumper wrote:
It's a '71. Have not found a color code or name anywhere, is there a typical place to look for that? I think these are very cool cars, but they seem to be quite rare.


From factory there was a silver paper sticker with the paint code and name in the front trunk close to where the jack is stored.
If that sticker is gone there shold be a plate in a similar location like the beetle below have it...from the two digit no written in cross we can find out the paint code.

Lars S

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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
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Cees Klumper
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Thanks Lars!
From what I can gather online, the color seems to be Shantung Gold. The car was repainted at least once, and I will have to do that again once I take care of the rust areas and get the new hood, etc. Will look for that code later today and report back.
There's a lot of maintenance receipts and records with the car. It did something like 70,000 miles in the first few years, this car was driven. Also amazing to see what things cost back in the seventies and eighties, full service for $17, that sort of thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Oh yes, Shantung Gold Yellow you mean, thats a wery nice and desired color...one year only (1971) also!


/Lars S
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Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver Smile
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold Sad
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold Sad
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold Sad
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold Sad
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Cees,

Welcome to the Type 4 world. It's great that the car was cared for... many were not because the owners gave up on them. Make very sure all your fuel lines and connections are in road worthy shape. Fire is bad! You mentioned the cost for service back then. Yes things seemed cheaper but you have to adjust for today's dollars. The 411/412s were very expensive and did not sell well in the North American market. They were well engineered cars though.

Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

You have a Lancia Fulvia as well? Magnificent. Your whole "fleet" selection is pretty cool- sounds like you will have things well under control. Most info you need will be found here, welcome!
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Cees Klumper
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Thanks 'Ubercrap' - yes, I enjoy cars from the seventies I guess. I had another cool one for a couple of years, the '73 El Camino that was used in the TV series 'My name is Earl' (red with blue door and primered hood). Was living in Geneva, Switzerland at the time. It was a lot of fun but I had to sell it when moving to the US, it's now in Canada with another 'My name is Earl' enthusiast.

I will start another thread when I get going on the rust repairs and repaint (have a lot of practice now, courtesy of the Lancia, that car had major rust issues but now all fixed). I will keep it the same color, my wife and I really like it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Quick update - yesterday and today replaced wheel bearings (except inners in rear - two driveshaft bolts are stripped). One front bearing was bad, it fell apart in my hands on dis-assembly. Also rebuilt the calipers, replaced rear brake cylinders + shoes, brake hoses and front discs and pads. Of course replaced all brake fluid. Braking now improved, and getting better with use (bedding in of the pads etc). Took it for test drive and the only thing not quite right is that, from a standstill, the engine really hesitates badly. Once it gets rolling, even 2-3 MPH, it will accellerate quite well, but from a dead stop it's like it really does not want to get going. I have to gently feather the gas and once it starts off, I can give it more gas without it bogging down. In neutral it revs quite happily. Also the kickdown does not work at all, and it also does not downshift when it should in normal (i.e. no kickdown). Shift from first to second a bit abrupt, from second to third quite smooth. I reckon the shifting issue is something with the vacuum control to the automatic gearbox. The lack of accelleration from standstil almost seems like a throttle position sensor fault, some signal not going to the injection management as it should. Any tips appreciated.
Also a very nice forum member (James, thanks again) put me in touch with a fellow enthusiast who has several parts cars and loose parts (fenders, hoods etc) only 30 miles from me, so I am very happy about that. Will go and see him hopefully sometime next week. I can then get onto the rusty bits and prep the car for a repaint in the same Shantung Gold/Yellow that I really like.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Today I replaced the rear shocks with new ones. Funny thing is, the old ones seemed in at least as good if not better (less rebound) shape than the new ones. Ride is fine so leaving them in.

I also addressed a small but noticeable vacuum leak, in a hose going to the distributor, and now the car idles at lower rpm when warm; before, it was running a bit high and at extended red lights made me put the trans in neutral. Now no more.

Lastly, I dug into the kickdown switch, under the gas pedal. Sure enough, it was broken and not functional. I could hear a solenoid click when I shorted out the leads going to the switch with the ignition on. I was able to put the switch back together with some 2 part epoxy glue, put it back in and now the kickdown works like a charm.

I still have the sluggish-from-dead-stop issue. A workaround is to give it just a bit of gas to get going, then gradually apply more. Then it takes off ok. I should mention that this throttle response is much better -actually normal- when the engine is cold.

At speed, the car is pretty quick; I took it on the highway for a few miles, and it easily got up to 70 mph, keeping up with traffic with lots to spare. Brakes still getting better with use.
So mechanically, the only real issues are the odd sluggish take-off and a slightly abrupt upshift from 1st to 2nd. Once those are sorted it seems like it will drive as originally intended. Still have to see about fuel consumption, not sure what to expect in that department.

Onto the panels, body + paint.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Cees,

Body and paint next? You will have to slow down for that and investigate. I would pull all the fenders and look for rust. Believe me they all have it. I noticed on your rear quarter photo there are the dreaded rust bubbles probably from the injected foam in the interior body channels. Take a look at my phptos and you will see where. I am just dealing with this issue now. You have to cut the cancer out and patch.

Bill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Cees Klumper wrote:
Today I replaced the rear shocks with new ones. Funny thing is, the old ones seemed in at least as good if not better (less rebound) shape than the new ones. Ride is fine so leaving them in.

I also addressed a small but noticeable vacuum leak, in a hose going to the distributor, and now the car idles at lower rpm when warm; before, it was running a bit high and at extended red lights made me put the trans in neutral. Now no more.

Lastly, I dug into the kickdown switch, under the gas pedal. Sure enough, it was broken and not functional. I could hear a solenoid click when I shorted out the leads going to the switch with the ignition on. I was able to put the switch back together with some 2 part epoxy glue, put it back in and now the kickdown works like a charm.

I still have the sluggish-from-dead-stop issue. A workaround is to give it just a bit of gas to get going, then gradually apply more. Then it takes off ok. I should mention that this throttle response is much better -actually normal- when the engine is cold.

At speed, the car is pretty quick; I took it on the highway for a few miles, and it easily got up to 70 mph, keeping up with traffic with lots to spare. Brakes still getting better with use.
So mechanically, the only real issues are the odd sluggish take-off and a slightly abrupt upshift from 1st to 2nd. Once those are sorted it seems like it will drive as originally intended. Still have to see about fuel consumption, not sure what to expect in that department.

Onto the panels, body + paint.



A couple of notes:

The wagon rear shocks should have been gas/oil from the factory. By this point in time the gas will have leaked into both sides of tehshock so they can feel exceedingly stiff and not ride well.

Which shock did you put on it? Technically....the "exact" shock for the 411/412 rear has not been manufactured since about 1989-90. So if you buy NOS...the life will be very short.
But...the KYB KG 5410 (I think thats the right number) is the exact shock in every way except it needs a spacer added to each side of the bushing on the lower eye. They are from the Ford Econoline 1/2 ton.

As for the running and shifting....first make sure of a couple of age related things. First its worthwhile to pull the engine and transmission and replace the seals between teh automatic section and final drive.

7 years or 70k miles is the rule. When the seal fails...and 100% of them will fail eventually....it leaks ATF into the final drive and destroys the ring and pinion.

And...it will be time to adjust the bands first and the main fluid pressure second and the modulator. All of this is in the Brown Bentley type 3 manual (same exact transmission).

Great! You found the modulator switch.

Usually the modulator valve driving and adjusting should fix the shift issue.

There should also be a throttle kicker dashpot ad "possibly" and electronic deceleration valve. Those are the next adjustment that may help. Let us know when you get to this. Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Thanks - yes, for sure will have to repair several rusty areas including bad ones you spotted. I've practiced quite a bit on my '73 Lancia over the past months (30+ repair sections incl structural and 4 new fenders butt-welded in) , I have sheet metal, shrinker-stretcher, shears, hammers/dollies, clecos, MIG welder, gas, wire etc so 'no problem'! I figure about two weeks' worth of repair work. Other areas are lower fenders, bottom of rear hatch and a small section of passenger floor. Really not too bad compared to my Lancia.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Thanks Ray! I put in NOS Sachs shocks. Ok ride, bit soft actually. Will look for those KYBs and try those if they are not too expensuve (KYBs usually aren't like, e.g Bilstein or Koni).
The motor was rebuilt in 2015 but will probably do as you suggest.
I have several manuals, just need to delve into them and take it one step at a time. Most of my experience is with sixties Mercedes and Triumphs, so have a bit of knowledge, but this is my first ever VW.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Cees Klumper wrote:
Thanks Ray! I put in NOS Sachs shocks. Ok ride, bit soft actually. Will look for those KYBs and try those if they are not too expensuve (KYBs usually aren't like, e.g Bilstein or Koni).
The motor was rebuilt in 2015 but will probably do as you suggest.
I have several manuals, just need to delve into them and take it one step at a time. Most of my experience is with sixties Mercedes and Triumphs, so have a bit of knowledge, but this is my first ever VW.


The problem with 411/412...is that there was never a REAL factory manual made. The Haynes manual is decent. I give it about....75%. There are some other European manuals...Drake etc....that are very thin but have unique nuggets in them like very good information on the working of the steering box. I have a "how to" coming out for that at some point. I rebuilt three units about five years ago and have 700 photos to go through.

The Chilton's manual is TERRIBLE...but has a few nuggets again that make it worthwhile.

The Clymer manual is decent...about 50% rating...but has the only known diagrams of the gauges used for centering the driveline....I have a how to for that I can link you to.

But....the brown Bentley type 3 car manual...is worthless for our cars except for a few electrical part and brake details....but the automatic transmission section is excellent and fully covers our transmission.

A FABULOUS book to have..is the very small "Without Guesswork" 1971 to 1974...the red one. It has all of the required numbers and specs for types 1, 2, 3 and 4 cars.

This one if you can find it
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/volkswagen-1971-1974-service-1618952950

The seal kit is just a few seals and with the engine out is only about an hour and is non-invasive. Its the seal between the two units. Maybe $25 in parts.

The shocks...you never know. You may get lucky and get 25 K miles from them. Please post the part numbers so we can tell you more about them.

If they are the oil shocks instead of the gas shocks...the oil shocks will be just fine unless the shaft seal fails. Internally there is no rubber and no gas. As long as the outer seals do not fail...they can last ages.

Although they are not correct for the wagon...you may not notice. They are VERY stiff for oil shocks because the rear trailing arm leverage is very high on 411/412. The only difference between the wagon and sedan shocks is load carrying capacity. As long as you are not loading it down...you will be fine.

The stock part # for the rear socks was KYB KG-5531. I have a set brand new in their boxes...but they are 20 years old. The KYB KG 5410 is teh same shock...exactly. Just needs a stack of washers on each side of the lower eye bushing.

It is high pressure gas and works well on either sedans or wagons .Really...if you can find any shock is that is the correct one for the front of a Ford Econoline 150 van...they will work perfectly. I just have not found any other brands really and non one had tried or reviewed them.

So....check Rockauto for a 1978 Ford E-150.

On that page they list the KYB 5410 as heavy duty for that vehicle...normal for our wagons....for about $28.50 each...so they have them.

They also have numerous other shocks for the front of the E-150...BUT...let me warn you now. One would THINK...that since all of these shocks are listed for the front of the same vehicle ...that they are the same right?.... no.....not exactly.

The KYB KG-5410...is the EXACT same shock as the 411/412 rear. Same diameter, stroke length, valving ratio (with a slight uprating), compressed length...and extended length. That compressed length and extended length are CRITICAL.

Because the shock on the 411/412....is both the final bump stop and extension stop...it must be exact. Because of the well or bore that the shock is in in the trailing arm....if the extension is too long...it literally will jam the shock if you go over a bump...and bend it and break it. I have been there. Diameter is also important. And...you cannot use booster shcoks with coil overs.

So...if you shop other shocks....Rockauto is a good place. Click on the "info" button on each shock and scroll down. It will show you the dimensions.

Here are the dimensions of the KG 5410.

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Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Thanks for your extensive and generous reply once again Ray.
I made a mistake in the brand of shock: it was Boge, not Sachs. The part number on the box is -27 372 0 and the label does say "Volkswagen Type 411 rear". Perhaps they are REALLY old NOS and they have actually perished, because the ride is really soft now, and wallowy. I will go for the KYBs, at that low price it's worth a shot.

Have a Haynes Manual on order and will look for the other sources as well. Will need to check out components one by one, and adjust modulator pressure and/or brake bands, especially for the second gear and reverse - those 'clonk' a bit more than desirable.

Still stumped so far on the sluggish take-off. When cold - drives great, normal quick accelleration. Must be something that changes when the engine warms up, about how the mixture is set. Maybe the air valve on the side there. When I put 12 volt on the one wire, nothing happens. Not sure it is supposed to. Will figure it out, it must be something relatively minor, since it runs perfectly when cold. It just feels like the engine gets too little fuel when warm under accelleration from a stop - either that, or it gets too little air - one of the two. Maybe it's the ignition timing, will need to check that as well. But once that one thing is sorted, it will be a great driveable car.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Cees Klumper wrote:
Thanks for your extensive and generous reply once again Ray.
I made a mistake in the brand of shock: it was Boge, not Sachs. The part number on the box is -27 372 0 and the label does say "Volkswagen Type 411 rear". Perhaps they are REALLY old NOS and they have actually perished, because the ride is really soft now, and wallowy. I will go for the KYBs, at that low price it's worth a shot.

Have a Haynes Manual on order and will look for the other sources as well. Will need to check out components one by one, and adjust modulator pressure and/or brake bands, especially for the second gear and reverse - those 'clonk' a bit more than desirable.

Still stumped so far on the sluggish take-off. When cold - drives great, normal quick accelleration. Must be something that changes when the engine warms up, about how the mixture is set. Maybe the air valve on the side there. When I put 12 volt on the one wire, nothing happens. Not sure it is supposed to. Will figure it out, it must be something relatively minor, since it runs perfectly when cold. It just feels like the engine gets too little fuel when warm under accelleration from a stop - either that, or it gets too little air - one of the two. Maybe it's the ignition timing, will need to check that as well. But once that one thing is sorted, it will be a great driveable car.



Yes!....the Boge are pretty much "stock". Very good shock!

Here is the diagram

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Here are the part #'s. There are 4.

Those listed models 411-426 are for two and four door sedan and are usually strictly an oil shock...but very powerful.

Those listed models 461-466 are for wagons. Note that one is listed as "M-103" In the m code list that is stated as "heavy duty". I believe that is the gas/oil shock.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I found a listing for your part # from Boge and those translate to VW part # 411 512 031 B. That means they are for a two or four door sedan.

They will be fine. Simply keep an eye on them for leakage at the rod seal. If they do not leak...they should be fine even for a wagon.

The "wallowy" feel...is kind of how these cars are. The KYB Gas-a-just are better all around. They are only good for about 40k miles...but they are the "heavy duty" shock + 10% load handling. They make a very nice uograde.

BUT...the biggest issue with the "wallowy" feel...on a wagon mdel...is because they never installed a rear anti-sway bar on the wagons. Sadly.

BUT....all of the threaded holes and mounting holes are there already installed. The rear trailing arms and beam are identical to the sedans.

If you find a salvage yard with a 411 or 412 sedan.....get the sway bar, the end links and center mounting brackets and it bolts right up in less than an hour.

A really good modification for any of the 411/412 cars is the "double" rear sway bar mod if you find two rear sway bars. I am not sure if I have done a "how to" on this...but several have done it and I have written a lot about it I can get you pictures if you need them.


You are on the right track about the mixture. More in the am. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Thanks, I think I will go for the KYBs or install the old shocks because they were firmer than these NOS Boges and gave a better ride, at least for me.

Yesterday I checked the manifold pressure sensor following the various youtube videos on the subject (93 ohm resistance on two pins and 350 on the other two; applied vacuum to 15 then observed whether it leaks - it does not and held the vacuum just fine). Then I diagnosed the throttle position sensor. Closed circuit at idle and with ignition on you can hear the injectors clicking quickly as you open the throttle. I opened it up and it's like new inside, all contacts seem to be good, no corrosion or what have you. All seems fine.

So, no improvement in the warm running characteristics. Still very unresponsive, once warm, from a standstil. Feather the gas and it gets going, once it does you can give it more gas but if you 'floor' it at standstil, it won't do much at all, as if there's barely any gas being injected. Strange, because when cold it accellerates really well. That gradually dinimishes until up to operating temperature. Bit frustrating. Could it be the injectors that need rebuilding? What are other likely suspects? Bad wire(s) from the sensors to the ECU? Bad ECU? Bad temp sensors?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie with a '71 411 3-door sedan automatic Reply with quote

Cees Klumper wrote:
Thanks, I think I will go for the KYBs or install the old shocks because they were firmer than these NOS Boges and gave a better ride, at least for me.

Yesterday I checked the manifold pressure sensor following the various youtube videos on the subject (93 ohm resistance on two pins and 350 on the other two; applied vacuum to 15 then observed whether it leaks - it does not and held the vacuum just fine). Then I diagnosed the throttle position sensor. Closed circuit at idle and with ignition on you can hear the injectors clicking quickly as you open the throttle. I opened it up and it's like new inside, all contacts seem to be good, no corrosion or what have you. All seems fine.

So, no improvement in the warm running characteristics. Still very unresponsive, once warm, from a standstil. Feather the gas and it gets going, once it does you can give it more gas but if you 'floor' it at standstil, it won't do much at all, as if there's barely any gas being injected. Strange, because when cold it accellerates really well. That gradually dinimishes until up to operating temperature. Bit frustrating. Could it be the injectors that need rebuilding? What are other likely suspects? Bad wire(s) from the sensors to the ECU? Bad ECU? Bad temp sensors?


Yes....the two temp sensors should be checked.

Yes.....your MPS checks out ok.....for vacuum and resistance.

Those are both good things.

The TVS or "throttle valve switch" you looked inside.... is NOT a throttle position sensor. It only has a "POSITION" function in two positions (and it depends on model and part #)......throttle closed....and wide open throttle.
But position is not its function.

When looking inside you would have noticed the wiper arms and the two rows of circuit tracks these wipers slide across as the throttle plate moves. These contacts......alternate. they are interleaved like a "zipper".
Everytime the tip contact of the wiper arm makes contact....alternately.....with a contact it slides over......the pair of injectors it corresponds to fires a pulse. Two channels....two pairs of injectors that fire in pairs.

So.....its function is technically identical to that of an accelerator pump in a carburetor. As the throttle strokes OPEN.....from closed to WOT......it has the capability of giving you 10 pulses per pair of injectors through the whole arc.

When the switch reaches full open....wide open throttle.......the wiper contact lands on a pad that signals maximum injector pulsewidth to the ECU.

Likewise....in reverse......as you are closing the throttle.....letting your foot back off the gas.....the floating forked switch inside the TVS.....disconnects the wiper arm s9 thst it does not fire the injectors for enrichment as the throttle is closing.

Once the throttle is completely closed......the wiper arm contact is in a parked position. This can signal the ECU in some models to be at minimum pulsewidth.

In most models after a specific date......when you are over about 15000 to 2000 rpm (i will have to look up the number).....and the throttle is closed and switch is parked .....it signals that you are in deceleration....which totally cuts off ALL injection. Its a pollution control function. And....it can cause issues. In most cars with 4 and 5 wire TVSI get better tuning by disconnecting the wire from the TVS for the over run fuel shut off.

So....if the TVS is worn or misadjusted.....it can affect just getting off the line. So adjustment must be done carefully....and most of the books get it wrong...even the Bentley.

Read this:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683230&highlight=tvs

So adjust your switch and do nothing else.....and if its still doing the same thing.....now you know what its NOT.

But from the sound of things.....your MPS needs to be adjusted.

Ray
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