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redvettemike
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2021
Posts: 17
Location: MS
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 Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:21 pm Post subject: 1973 Beetle |
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Hello: This is my first post. I have a classic car restoration business in Ridgeland, Ms. Recently I was contacted by friends who's friend of many years had died unexpectedly at age 70. He had been working on a 1973 Beetle which he bought in 2018. The vehicle is absolutely fine. His 1 1/2" thick paperwork (he was a retired mechanical engineer) was perfect as the car appears to me. He had spent over $19000 on new parts for this vehicle. Most came from JBugs. The daughter of the deceased owner wants to sell the VW. The $19K does not include the original purchase price and includes nothing for what what had to have been many hundreds of hours to fabricate this vehicle, fine paint, etc. It is not complete but is about 95% complete. Some of the glass has to be put in; headliner; carpet. He has all of that (plus a bunch more). I have no idea what to ask for the car. It must be one of the finest in the USA. Any advice is welcome. I know this is not a lot of information to go off of.
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1606
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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That is a beautiful car. Unfortunately 1973 is not as collectable as those from the 50s and 60s. 1973 models top off in the 8 to maybe 10k range. Then you have to subtract the remaining costs to complete the job. Most of us put more time and money into these cars than their value. So the 19 plus labor is not relevant to the value.
If you want a quick sale, then don't go over 5k. If you are willing to wait, then ask for 7 or 8. Or. The return on investment to finish the restoration might be good. Put 1 or 2 into finishing the job and sell for 9 or 10?
_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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Sorry to say but it's nowhere near gonna sell for $19k.
Things like the non-stock bumpers and billet insets are so 1990s.
Just looking at the engine it appears to be fairly stock with a a 009 distributor and a Holley Progressive carb... not a good combo.
I know alittle about late models since i've owned my 74 since 1974.
Hard to give a price, but i'd think to the right person and they love the car... maybe $12,000.
As to finest... here's what a $19k car looks like. The engine and transaxle are worth $12k by themselves.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Sorry to say but it's nowhere near gonna sell for $19k.
As to finest... here's what a $19k car looks like. The engine and transaxle are worth $12k by themselves.
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I reference your car for a lot of things, and think it’s one of the nicest on the site. Why is the op’s car not worth $19k, when they have $19k in receipts, and you feel yours is worth $19k with $12k of receipts for two items? If someone wants to duplicate the op’s vehicle, they’re going to spend $19k, and if someone wants an engine similar to your 2180 with a Berg 5spd, they’re going to spend $12k.
I get it to an extent. If you spend $100k on a 1000 point restoration on a 75 Superbeetle, that’s not going to automatically make it worth $100k. It will however make it within the top .01%, if not the nicest, 75 Super on the planet. This makes it incomparable to almost any other Super.
To the original poster, see if you can find someone, if not yourself, to finish the last 5% of the work to make it as complete of a running driving vehicle it can be. As of now, if it’s not running/driving, it’s still a project vehicle. This is detracting A LOT from the value. I’ve seen values offered, and accepted on VW’s at non-VW venues that most on this site couldn’t fathom. If the vehicle can be completed to a running/driving vehicle, ask $25k for it, and see what happens. This will help weed out tire kickers, and start from “a number” that can then be discussed. The quality of the build will decide what an interested party is willing to pay, and how close to the $19K worth it will bring. You, and I both know $19k for a “restoration” isn’t going to get you very far in 2021 on ANY vehicle. Hopefully someone possibly interested in the vehicle will realize the extent of work, and what that work would cost if starting from scratch to recreate the car, and help your friend get some/most/all of the money back out of the vehicle. Other options would be to hire one of the auction houses like Barret Jackson, or hire some sort of local Classic Car sales dealerships/sites that offer vehicles to a broader range of an audience other than VW enthusiasts. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
I reference your car for a lot of things, and think it’s one of the nicest on the site. Why is the op’s car not worth $19k, when they have $19k in receipts, and you feel yours is worth $19k with $12k of receipts for two items? If someone wants to duplicate the op’s vehicle, they’re going to spend $19k, and if someone wants an engine similar to your 2180 with a Berg 5spd, they’re going to spend $12k. |
Fair enough...
While a 69 Yenko Camaro clone is not worth what a real one is worth, it's certainly worth more than a 69 Camaro with a 307 and an automatic. A one owner car is worth more than a car that has had multiple owners. Documentation also adds to the value, car show wins might matter or not. And the owner's reputation and history also adds.
Gary Berg's 67 Bergler is a car with serious history and ownership and worth more than building a clone.
Trust me to build my car it will cost you way more than what I could sell it for.. if i were selling it.
And i've turned down offers more that $19k. One guy, after being taken for a ride, came back with cash in hand. Maybe I should of taken it but i wasn't ready.
As they say, it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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JSwindoll08
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2020
Posts: 44
Location: MS
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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Redvettemike,
welcome to The Samba! I live down in Hattiesburg..... used to live in Madison. Right next door to you! Though I'm not in the market, I'd love to come check it out sometime. I've never seen a bug that nice in person. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:35 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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I used to work 1/2 mile from Barrett-Jackson, and lived 5 miles from it. I never attended.
A lot of this is just for wealthy folks from colder climates to come and visit Scottsdale and stay at expensive hotels and eat at fancy restaurants. To many of these it's "what pandemic???" Mrs. Cusser had to drive near Barrett-Jackson yesterday, said HUGE traffic jam, and also when she drove by two high-end shopping centers on opposite sides of Snobsdale Rd, seemed like no pandemic at all and so crowded it seemed they were giving away free lobsters!!!
I've seen signs on collector-type restored vehicles in parking lots of expensive stores, by folks wanting to avoid the high brokerage fees of such auctions.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1606
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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To maximize the price you can sell these cars for, I recommend avoiding FB and CL and the Samba classifieds. Potential buyers see the wealth of inventory and realize these care are not really that rare, and you are also competing with every car for sale on the internet - not fun. Instead, I've had better luck in the past simply putting a for sale sign in the window and leaving it out an a nice weekend. Spontaneous buyers driving by maybe haven't seen an old VW in years and may consider them rare - even those built in the 1970s. Your not gonna get 19K this way, but you might get 1 or 2 more than you would get by selling over the internet.
_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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Without seeing the original posters vehicle, or any of the auction vehicles, that list is about as useful as comparing them to a selling price for your car. Yes, there are many circumstances that bring value to a vehicle. Every seller/buyer has attributes they feel add/detract value. The op’s vehicle may be too custom for some with the metal dash/custom bumpers, and not custom enough for others. While I realize the significance of Gary Berg, and his 67 in the Aircooled VW industry, it means nothing to someone who doesn’t know who Gene/Gary Berg is.
I do agree that the op’s car needs to be offered in a venue outside of the VW circle. The out of the ordinary offers/sales on VW’s I’ve come across were from non-VW enthusiasts appreciating the value/work put into the vehicle, not “what it’s worth” through the eyes of a VW enthusiast that bought their first VW decades ago for $150. |
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redvettemike
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2021
Posts: 17
Location: MS
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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This week we received a new long block from MoFoCo for the VW. He also has a twin Weber carb set up (new) in the stash of parts for the VW.
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redvettemike
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2021
Posts: 17
Location: MS
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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A few more photos:
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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| redvettemike wrote: |
| This week we received a new long block from MoFoCo for the VW. He also has a twin Weber carb set up (new) in the stash of parts for the VW. |
What's wrong with the existing engine?
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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redvettemike
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2021
Posts: 17
Location: MS
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:11 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| redvettemike wrote: |
| This week we received a new long block from MoFoCo for the VW. He also has a twin Weber carb set up (new) in the stash of parts for the VW. |
What's wrong with the existing engine? |
I have no idea. He spent a ton$ on it it appears to us. But we have this new one with a Weber carb set up in another box, engine dress up kit, on and on. I'm going to inventory the boxes there so to see what is there. The cost of the engine is not in the $19k of additional parts that I mentioned. We don't know exactly where he was headed but this must be on of the finest Beetles in the US.
It will be the best thing to sell the car and all the parts together. |
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:04 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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The only way to get your money out of it is to keep it and use it.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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redvettemike
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2021
Posts: 17
Location: MS
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:07 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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| gt1953 wrote: |
| The only way to get your money out of it is to keep it and use it. |
We do not think we will get all the $ back. We do however, intend to sell the VW for the most we can get. We will advertise it on VW and non VW sites. |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1606
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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Put it on Hemmings.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Tom K.
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 1606
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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redvettemike
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2021
Posts: 17
Location: MS
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Beetle |
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| Tom K. wrote: |
| I'm thinking he installed that engine? |
There is a problem when dealing with a builder who is deceased. We know not what was on his mind. The engine in the car looks good to me. But now we have this brand new (well, it may be rebuilt; does anyone know what MoFoCo does?) |
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