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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22639 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:13 am Post subject: Re: 12v 600watt Cabin Heater for '76 bus |
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Electrical heating is actually the most efficient there is - 100% of the energy is converted to heat.
The frustration comes from the continued rehash by those who didnt take thermodynamics, and thus we have 20 years of discussion of why 100 Watts of heat wont heat a Bus. The science of this is all worked out >100 years ago.
Once you tell me how much heat your are putting into your Bus,what the outside temperature is, and what the desired inside temperature is, and a few other things, anyone who took thermo can tell you if it will work. There is no 'space age polymer' or 'miracle battery' that will change this. _________________ .ssS! |
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ImAddicted Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 1195 Location: Unorganized Territory, Maine
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: Re: 12v 600watt Cabin Heater for '76 bus |
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Abscate wrote: |
Electrical heating is actually the most efficient there is - 100% of the energy is converted to heat.
The frustration comes from the continued rehash by those who didnt take thermodynamics, and thus we have 20 years of discussion of why 100 Watts of heat wont heat a Bus. The science of this is all worked out >100 years ago.
Once you tell me how much heat your are putting into your Bus,what the outside temperature is, and what the desired inside temperature is, and a few other things, anyone who took thermo can tell you if it will work. There is no 'space age polymer' or 'miracle battery' that will change this. |
And then how much outside air intrusion you anticipate .
Anecdotal evidence (N=1): We wintered in an 18th century farm-hands' apartment for the winter due to the drought and no water at our house. 8" of Owens-Corning's finest in the walls and ceiling in two of the rooms, the third completely uninsulated, unused, door shut but unfortunately unable to completely seal it off due to door and frame design. None in the floor.
Front door weatherstripped, unable to completely seal due to structural settling, Windows shrinkwrapped. Despite this, when the wind would crank up, the bathroom door on the opposite side of the room would slam shut. When there was no wind, the heat would run non-stop. This was for two 10x10 rooms.
Primary heat: Monitor 65,000 BTU. It took two additional 18,000 BTU propane heaters to drop the primary cycling down from constant to every 15-20 minutes to maintain 66F with 20-25F outside temp. When the wind was blowing 25MPH, forget it.
So while the metal box discussed here is smaller with less air space, it has minimal insulation, lots of air gaps (even the best sealed car has air exchange), and going 50-60mph. A little electric heater isn't going to cut it. Get it sealed up the best you can, get a fossil fuel heater, and gloves. _________________ 1979 Transporter (sold)
KC1MUR
strfish7 wrote: |
Original condition, which means something different on this forum than anywhere else! |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6979 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:26 am Post subject: Re: 12v 600watt Cabin Heater for '76 bus |
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wagohn wrote: |
...use refillable 1LB cannisters - cannisters that are both legal to refill (from a 20lb with an adapter) and transport. This seems by far the most economical and works out much cheaper than diesel if using refillable 1LB bottles the economics of it all. |
I had no idea this was possible. Just looked it up and the filling adapter is only $8.99. Seems reasonable when a 2 pack of filled 1lb canisters is $7.99. We just got a camping propane fire pit. So, ultimately I’m gonna go with a 5lb propane bottle to run the fire pit, grill and stove. Then I’ll only carry one or maybe two 1lb canisters to run the Buddy heater, instead of carrying a 6 pack of them around.
As far as the electric heat goes, seems like it may not be cost effective. In the case posted the poster has 2 batteries under the rear seat, a solar panel, controller, all that wiring, an inverter and the heating unit. That shit ain’t cheap and it takes up a lot of room inside the bus. If you actually travel and camp in your bus, you know that there really isn’t that much room for all your gear. Personally I wouldn’t want to give up all that storage room for batteries and everything you need to make them work properly. Also, for the price of all that stuff you could just buy the parts needed to complete your factory heating system. My factory heat works excellent and yours could too with the correct parts in place, especially when a T2b has the booster fan.
I see how the diesel heater would be nice, but again it takes up much needed space. I use the Buddy, it’s small, easy to pack, easy to use and you can take it out when you’re not camping. All the years I’ve used one I’ve never had an issue with fumes and haven’t noticed much condensation. If I use it at night, I usually use a mostly empty canister and let it just run out. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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wagohn Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 740 Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Re: 12v 600watt Cabin Heater for '76 bus |
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richparker wrote: |
wagohn wrote: |
...use refillable 1LB cannisters - cannisters that are both legal to refill (from a 20lb with an adapter) and transport. This seems by far the most economical and works out much cheaper than diesel if using refillable 1LB bottles the economics of it all. |
I had no idea this was possible. Just looked it up and the filling adapter is only $8.99. Seems reasonable when a 2 pack of filled 1lb canisters is $7.99. We just got a camping propane fire pit. So, ultimately I’m gonna go with a 5lb propane bottle to run the fire pit, grill and stove. Then I’ll only carry one or maybe two 1lb canisters to run the Buddy heater, instead of carrying a 6 pack of them around.
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Well, not really. You may be OK using the $8 adapter to fill the bottles (I'm not sure, you would have to verify) but the issue is transportation. It's illegal to transport a "refilled" bottle that is not DOT authorized - those little Coleman canisters are not refill approved. If you have a wreck and the thing explodes, guess where they will come looking for an "out" on coverage.
We are using this linked system. The bottles are approved by DOT for refill and transportation. Initial outlay is a few dollars more but we've refilled the bottles many, many times. Not to mention the ease of having the ability to refill at home before a trip (20LB bottle source) and not having to hit Targets for a bunch of $6 Coleman throwaways.
https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder/dp/B07F9LCYRT
PS - They come and go into "available" on Amazon. Other stores stock them though. _________________ 1976 VW Transporter, 2.0 FI Engine |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: 12v 600watt Cabin Heater for '76 bus |
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A couple of notes on refilling 'disposable' propane cylinders (which I do, and yes, they are illegal to transport):
1) 20 lb propane bottles tend to accumulate wax and other contaminates which, if given a chance, will plug the small orifices on small lanterns, heaters, and torch heads. Every once in a while, when the 20 lb cylinder goes 'empty', purge out all the remaining gas and crap through the bleed screw (tank inverted; found on most 20 lb cylinders).
2) When refilling small cylinders, put them in a bucket of ice water. They will fill MUCH faster.
3) DO NOT OVERFILL small cylinders. Unlike the large 20 lb cylinders, the small ones can be filled to the top. You MUST have expansion space, otherwise the cylinder can be deformed from expanding liquid (ask me how I know...) Better to fill only 3/4 full and avoid this issue.
4) DO NOT let the moron at the gas station fill your new style 20 lb cylinders completely full! The 'idiot-proof' float valve inside can get jammed shut, and you can't get the gas to flow out. You have to purge a lot of gas that you just paid for through the bleed screw then bang the cylinder on the ground to un-stick the float. This obviously doesn't do the cylinder any good. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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nemobuscaptain Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 3874
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